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Wild Things

rock-fencer · · Columbia, SC · Joined Dec 2009 · Points: 265
Scott McMahon wrote: Dang...guess that's what I get for jumping on the first generation.
Scott what was your impression of the jacket you do have? Fit issues aside How has it held up?
Scott McMahon · · Boulder, CO · Joined Feb 2006 · Points: 1,425
rock_fencer wrote: Scott what was your impression of the jacket you do have? Fit issues aside How has it held up?
Overall the desgin is nice and it's pretty durable with some tough fabric. Fill wise, it's sort of an in between piece. It doesn't have the lightweight packablility of the atom, so it comes out more as a cooler weather belay jacket. I'd say it's also less of a layering piece and more of over layer as well, but I wouldn't bring it out on an ice climb. I haven't put it through it's full paces as of yet since at this time of year I'm either using my Atom LT or a larger puffy Rab Neutrino. I recommend it more of a late summer / fall crag jacket instead of the typical alpine WT's is known for, but of course that's just my opinion.

Fit wise just to add on a bit I'm 5'9 with a wide upper body and decent ape index and had to go with the XL. The fit both upper chest and sleevewise on the original was way too small, whereas I can wear the atom more comfortably as a layering piece.

Luckily for me, being wide makes some of the WT, current Patagonia and Cloudveils work a bit better.
Michael Boardman · · Unknown Hometown · Joined May 2011 · Points: 0

Hey John. The Makulu was a great piece. We may have the bandwidth to put a new shell on it. Having the fabric on hand is another question Your best bet is to give the folks at the store a shout. 1-877-WTHINGS

I hear you Scott and Tits, and my goal is to make sure we come through for you guys going forward. We now have a free returns policy and we'll cover the return shipping. If it doesn't fit return it. It's now that simple.

The custom version of the Insulight Jacket does allow you to lighten the piece quite a bit, exchanging the heavier Wind Pro side panels for more breathable and lighter Power Stretch. I run hot, particularly on ice climbs, and this makes the piece a good choice for me.

At any rate, the criticism is hear felt, and we'll keep pushing forward.

- Mike

Kevin · · California · Joined Jan 2012 · Points: 0

Hey Michael, thanks for joining in on the conversation; I think that says a lot about Wild Things.

As Dane mentioned and most of us know, Wild Things was THE brand for alpinism. Since then, they've been known for halting innovation, then leaving the market altogether (US Military dollars trump ours exponentially, I'm sure, so it's hard to fault them). Since then, WT has attempted a contemporary resurgence with little to no innovation.

The current lineup is based on military ideas and fabrics. It's hard to preach "Light is Right" these days because WT apparel doesn't source functionally light textiles for alpine use - compare the WT weight lineup to, say, Arc'Teryx (who, broadly stated, stays on the durability side, rather than the lightweight side, of the spectrum) and it's painfully obvious. EPIC was a magic textile in the 90s, but the year is now 2012 and there's a reason no one else in the market uses it. The Mountain Guide softshell is in the same weight category as the Gamma MX - a fantastic day piece, but one known for its limited use while on a route. The Insulight jacket weighs a good deal more than the Atom SV while it ought to compare to the Atom LT. The Alpinist Jacket is spec'd at 20oz - three ounces more than the Alpha SV!

Another complaint I would file is the use of Primaloft Sport. Recently highlighted again by Dane, it's simply not as good as Primaloft One. Unfortunately, One can't be sourced in the USA, so the use of Primaloft Sport comes from the military obligations. You're selling us sub-par insulation without getting a discount - I know making garments in the US is more expensive, but don't try to be price competitive by lowering your standards because then you're leaving me with the choice of QUALITY or Made in America.

Wild Things has an incredibly rich heritage. Unfortunately, most of the contemporary apparel isn't exciting for a number of reasons. I want to support you again, and would love to rep some WT gear in the mountains, but this stuff is lacks compelling reasons beyond the Wild Things logo.

FWIW, the packs are still great--just what alpinists today really need, same as back then--in contrast to so many modern "alpine" packs. Get us a better tool attachment system and they'd be DIALED. I bet if you did a special release in a Spectra or Dyneema fabric (you should be able to source some with those military contacts) you'd have some super excited fans sing your praises in the high alpine.

APBT1976 · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Nov 2011 · Points: 55

I agree with most everything said in this thread.

Being a New Englander i would love nothing more that to rock some Wild Things gear. I would hands down be rocking the Guide pack if only it had legit ice tool holders. The wanky loops and then the lid straps being in the way is a deal breaker with many other great options on the market.

rock-fencer · · Columbia, SC · Joined Dec 2009 · Points: 265

so does anyone climb in a synthetic/down puffy on rock...or do all these jackets with the UL fabrics just get tore up and i should stick to climbing in a fleece and be looking at a lightweight belay jacket.

Michael Boardman · · Unknown Hometown · Joined May 2011 · Points: 0

Thanks for articulate expression Stephan. We do need to step up our product development to retain your business.

Dave Bn · · Boise, ID · Joined Jul 2011 · Points: 10
rock_fencer wrote:so does anyone climb in a synthetic/down puffy on rock...or do all these jackets with the UL fabrics just get tore up and i should stick to climbing in a fleece and be looking at a lightweight belay jacket.
The Nano puff is pretty burly from what I hear. Have a friend who had a late night (multiple) bike "accident" while wearing his Nano and supposedly it emerged unscathed.
bearbreeder · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2009 · Points: 3,065
rock_fencer wrote:so does anyone climb in a synthetic/down puffy on rock...or do all these jackets with the UL fabrics just get tore up and i should stick to climbing in a fleece and be looking at a lightweight belay jacket.
like i said it depends on what you climb, how much you climb and honestly some blind luck ... eventually it wil wear through

if youre sport climbing or something with a similar style with very little body contact, it wont matter

if youre climbing trad or a style with a lot of body contact, deep jams and grovelling ... youll get holes sooner or later ...

and im not about the occasional ... "oh i had to do a short chimney pitch and it survived" ... but day after day of said climbing

i find that windshirts (a synth puffy is basically a thin windshirt with insulation) get holes within about 20+ pitches of yosemite/squamish style hand/fist/offwidth/chimney jamming ...

you need to ask yourself 2 questions

1. are you cold when moving or at belays

2. and if the former do you really want to spend 150-250$ (assuming you get one of those fancy brand names) on something that will be in regular full contact with the rock if that is your climbing style
scott cooney · · La Casa Taco · Joined Feb 2011 · Points: 85
rock_fencer wrote:so does anyone climb in a synthetic/down puffy on rock...or do all these jackets with the UL fabrics just get tore up and i should stick to climbing in a fleece and be looking at a lightweight belay jacket.
I'll give a +1 to bear breader, personally I use a patagucci down sweatshirt with hood for my alpine climbs, but I don't climb in it, it comes out at the belays. for moving I run a lil warm so a standard capilene shirt for a base which is usually the exposed layer while climbing. the down sweater is my choice for the belay due to its self stow pocket and clip loop, that way it can be on my harness while I climb and I don't need a pack to have it with me on lead. I think if I was forced to wear it while leading it wouldn't survive very long at all, really feels fragile as all heck. as far as WT goes I had already contacted them via social media suggesting they add the self stow and loop to their insulight jacket, and if they do I'll switch to that over the patagucci, but until then I'm sticking with what functions the way I need it to, and for a climbing jacket the ability to take it with, without a pack is crucial on harder alpine routes. for a layer heavier than capilene to actively climb in I'd reccomend something like R1 with its one side fleece so the outside is more abrasion resistant.
rock-fencer · · Columbia, SC · Joined Dec 2009 · Points: 265

Food for thought.

Mostly cold at belays i guess Bearbreeder. Though quite frequently on the rock as well but that probably more due to lack of a good R1 style layer.

In the mean time i gifted myself a new pair of soft shell pants for my birthday. now to just finish med school finals and get out climbing as much as possible for three weeks.

Appreciate all the beta.

Cheers
T

bearbreeder · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2009 · Points: 3,065

then i suggest a 100g/m+ primaloft (assuming freezing level, if colder get more insulation) belay jacket that you can use at belays ... should be fitted so that it can easily go over your softshell ...

youll either carry this jacket in a leaders pack ... or tie it bandolier style around your shoulder (make sure you zip it up so that it doesnt flop around too much) though this will wear it out as well, so i buy cheap and onsale ...

now "primaloft one" is better if you are paying full price ... but you ARE going to see sick 50%+ off sales in the next month or so on perfectly functional belay jackets ... and if you see one using a "lesser" insulation like "primaloft sport" or "microtherm", etc ... if the price is really right then those will work perfectly fine, if slightly less warm for the weight

if moisture isnt an issue down is warmer for the weight than anything else ... you WILL see sales on 800+fill down jackets over the holidays as well

wild things does have 100 g/m+ hooded jackets for 84$ right now ...

wildthingsgear.com/wild-thi…

heres the best article on belay jackets

andy-kirkpatrick.com/articl…

Tits McGee · · Boulder, CO · Joined Apr 2008 · Points: 260

Ultimately, it was the expectation that WT was going to return where they left off that let me down. Which they did. I was expecting ultra light, ultra durable innovation. Instead I got a "good" product, that doesn't really match up to the top brands of the industry.

So in reality, Wild Things is starting from scratch. Give it a couple of years and I am sure they will come through with the same level of quality and innovation they have built their reputation on...hopefully.

As for puffy jackets...
Most LT/Nano/Lite jackets won't give you enough insulation for a true belay jacket. As Bear stated, 100+ grams of insulation is what you want to look for in a true winter/ice/alpine belay jacket.

Dane · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jun 2008 · Points: 562

You won't be climbing technical ground in a 100g jacket even in pretty cold winter temps with out over heating. That is the standard belay jacket weight on most terrain in NA short of Alaska or Canada over nights in winter.

You can climb pretty easily in cool temps in a 60g garment. Including Alaska and Canadian winters. Even easier if the garment vents well on the side like the Atom LT. R1 layer under them is typically enough.

The 60g garments won't last for ever if you are rubbing them on rocks. No worse than any lwt shell garment however. May be better than most. But then again they are warmer and likely half the weight or less of a typical soft shell. They'll almost certainly breath better and be warmer and drier as well tha a soft shell. On ice they will last almost for ever if you are reasonably careful.

2oz is 56g
60g garments are sweater weight made to climb in

100g garments are lwt belay jackets *Atom SV*
4oz is 112g

100g+ is a full on belay jacket

DAS is a 170g +/- depending on year of production

Brie Abram · · Celo, NC · Joined Oct 2007 · Points: 493

It appears that WT has already responded a bit. Primaloft One is now an option on their custom Insulight jackets.

wildthingsgear.com/wild-thi…

Matt Shove · · Ragged Mountain · Joined May 2007 · Points: 236

I've always purchased Wild Things insulated jackets because they are more durable than anything else. That Epic shell is the deal maker, not the deal breaker. For professional use, one can purchase the latest and lightest, but you'll need to replace it before the next season. If WT can keep the highest quality synthtetic insulation, with a durable shell cover, they will always get my money. I now have an Atom SV (?) and I'm impressed. I wonder if it will last as long as my WT EP though...5 years and counting.

bearbreeder · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2009 · Points: 3,065
Brian Abram wrote:It appears that WT has already responded a bit. Primaloft One is now an option on their custom Insulight jackets.
something to consider now that patagucci and others are moving away from PL1 to the cheaper insulations ... if you are buying new

of course even el cheapo brands use PL1 like the latest MEC 100/m+ jackets for 85-100$, the EB FA ones that are often onsale, hell even LL Bean uses PL1 ...

if a "high end" brand name doesnt use PL1, you really gotta ask what yr getting when these "budget brands" do ...

course the best thing is just to get what is on a big sale regardless if yr using it on rock ;)
Dane · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jun 2008 · Points: 562

"if a "high end" brand name doesnt use PL1, you really gotta ask what yr getting when these "budget brands" do "

what he said.

Christian Mason · · Westminster CO · Joined Jul 2007 · Points: 161
Ray Pinpillage wrote:Custom clothing, unless tailored, has always been a huge letdown for me. I bought a very expensive Beyond custom softshell and it was total crap. I'm not willing to go through that again.
What were you disappointed with in the Beyond jacket?
I have one that I absolutely love. It took them WAY longer to get it to me than anticipated, which was pretty disappointing, but I'm very happy with the qualify of the product.
Michael Boardman · · Unknown Hometown · Joined May 2011 · Points: 0

Dane,

The economics are pretty simple. PrimaLoft ONE isn't available domestically. In fact it's very expensive to get it into the US for domestic manufacturing. One can argue fairly convincingly that brands that manufacture overseas, including the cheaper brands, have access to better materials. This is precisely how companies get driven into foreign manufacturing. Makes me sad.

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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