Over lap of mastercam and c4s

Will S wrote: 13.25 vs 15. "Holding power" is mostly a marketing term. Aliens used/use about a 16. In reality, there are very, very, very few cases where this would make any difference at all. The tradeoff is, the smaller the cam angle the smaller the range. I'll take more range. YMMV. There are probably as many cases where the extra "holding power" would be detrimental as helpful. Think of a placement where the integrity of the rock is questionable...that smaller cam angle is more likely to blow the placement apart than a larger cam angle (though again, in reality this will almost never matter)

Thanks I kinda always figured it all leveled out in the end.I like them both but prefer c4's 1 and above and mastercams 5 and below although I do have a 6 mastercam that I like better then the 1 c4 for aid.

sanz wrote:I love the combo of: Yellow MC Grey C4 Orange MC Purple C4 Red MC Green C4 Each one kinda fits in between the others, so you aren't carrying doubles so much as a rack that really covers all sizes. Sure there are plenty of placements that will take more than one option, but often there is one that is just perfect when another is OK.

This is very true. On paper they look almost the same, but in real life they frequently don't fit the same places.

ian watson wrote: I like them both but prefer c4's 1 and above and mastercams 5 and below although I do have a 6 mastercam that I like better then the 1 c4 for aid.

Agreed. The 6mc is also nice when you carry a double rack cause it kinda fits between the 1 and 2 c4.

Jake Jones wrote:Also, especially in the smaller sizes, it's worth considering that mastercams will more readily take to shallower placements than C4s. I think C3s still hold the prize for narrowest head if I'm not mistaken. Like someone mentioned earlier, not one of them does everything, but most do their specialty quite well. Pick the right one for the job.

C3s just edge out master cams on head width but master cams come close. The smallest Totem cam has a comparable head width to the largest C3, they also beat MS by a fair margin.

Personally my favourite cams are Totems and then Master Cams.

I don't think it makes sense to have "doubles" of any one cam. But eventually you will want double SIZES and overlapping in the middle is a good way to start.

My rack in size order:

Purple c3
Green c3
Blue Mastercam
Green Alien
Yellow Mastercam
Yellow Alien
Orange Mastercam
Red Alien
Purple c4
Red Powercam
Green c4
Orange Alien
WC helium 2
Red c4
Helium 2.5
Gold c4
Helium 3
Blue c4
DMM 3.8?

That's 19 cams with triples in the middle (1 inch). In the UK I often only take 8-10 cams. Same with many areas in NC. If you're doing long crack climbs you'll have 14 or more cams. I just don't see a point in not having a lot of different stuff. Over time you'll learn what you like and what you don't. And in the end you'll decide that pretty much anything will work 90% of the time.

David Appelhans wrote: This is actually what I have switched to doing for the last year as well.

Are you also still carrying the bd .4?

ilclimberken wrote: Are you also still carrying the bd .4?

no.

Standard rack for me is master cams 1-2, metolius tcu 1-3, 1x BD .5, 2x BD .75-3 and a set of nuts with double overlap in the medium nut sizes. If the climb is supposed to be thin I'll bring a purple mastercam, if it is supposed to need a #4 I'll either add a #4 or trade out one of the BD #3 for the #4.

At the crag the extra weight and clutter of gear isn't really a problem, but I prefer to train at the crag on the same rack that I'd take alpine climbing.

My rack for small stuff is Metolius gray mastercam 00, purple mc 0, blue mc 1, then blue bd c4 .3, gray bd c4 .4., bd .5, .75, etc. This is in MHO the best option cause I dont have any aliens or the new bd x4s. People say small c4s have a much wider head, but its only 1/4" wider than mastercam of similar size(see picture). The bd x4 will be even more narrow, but will prob cost $80 (too much)

Mastercam # 1 on left (1 1/4" width). Bd c4 .3 on right (1 1/2" width)

As it stands, i have singles in the c3's 1 & 2, .4. & .5 and doubles up to #2.. One of my .75's is about ready for replacement and i haven't used my .4 much, i do not own the .3BD. One of my partners and I have been climbing in a couple of areas where her orange and red TCU's are very necessary. I was thinking about selling the .4BD and dropping my double .75BD and adding the Orange and Red Tcu's, and then to compliment my C3's, add the Blue and Yellow Mastercams.

Anyone have an objection to this? I'm kinda wondering if i should go all Mastercams over the TCU's after reading this forum topic..

ilclimberken wrote: I'm kinda wondering if i should go all Mastercams over the TCU's after reading this forum topic..

i'm waiting for the BD x4s to come out this spring;

blackdiamondequipment.com/e…

Im sure their the bees knees but Im sure the price will keep my interests in the Metolius

The x4s look like they will be amazing. However, because of the amount of milling required to get the springs integrated into the cam heads, they won't be all that cheap. Which sucks for the climbers on a budget.

...and which is why I have mastercams on the small end and not aliens or c3s. MCs and TCUs can be found for $38-42 on sale multiple times throughout the year. C3s were recently $45 though - I prefer MCs for my single set, though.

ilclimberken wrote:As it stands, i have singles in the c3's 1 & 2, .4. & .5 and doubles up to #2.. One of my .75's is about ready for replacement and i haven't used my .4 much, i do not own the .3BD. One of my partners and I have been climbing in a couple of areas where her orange and red TCU's are very necessary. I was thinking about selling the .4BD and dropping my double .75BD and adding the Orange and Red Tcu's, and then to compliment my C3's, add the Blue and Yellow Mastercams. Anyone have an objection to this? I'm kinda wondering if i should go all Mastercams over the TCU's after reading this forum topic..

That sounds like a very nice rack to me. TCUs vs MC for the Orange and Red isn't going to make that big a difference, The TCUs will fit in some funny placements that the mastercam won't but the MC are more stable and can't be levered out as easily. I'd go for whichever is most on sale.