When to use screamers

bearbreeder wrote: And i could easily say the same about the marginal gear you use ;)

Please do. If you have information that I may not be aware about or simply an opinion you wish to express the I am all ears.

This is a open forum, if we didn't share information I'm not sure why it would exist.

bearbreeder wrote:Or the redbull you drink in the morning Or the bowlines which people tie in with which have accidents on record ...

Don't let me hold you back from making a redbull or bowline thread.

I think I've said enough now, i don't see much use in continuing this.

Stich wrote: It's not a matter of worry, but rather a pathological need to yammer on like a Yorkshire terrier long after the homeless guy has shambled on past the yard.

one could easily say that about the essays Rgold has written on this thread as well eh?

disclaimer- I dont use screamers, never have never will unless I'm out of disfigured 10 year old quickdraws to clip to my cams that dont have color coded biners on them and someone left one on the belay for me to booty. even then I'd probably toss it off the cliff(after bootying the biners of course) cause inspecting them is a bit hard to do.

bearbreeder wrote: And i could easily say the same about the marginal gear you use ;) Or the redbull you drink in the morning Or the bowlines which people tie in with which have accidents on record ... I dont see ya fretting about those =P Show me more than a 15 year old test for which we dont know the conditions of ...

CAI research isn´t peer reviewed, they are not an academic institution, though the professor (of materials science) who runs them may disagree. For sure he knows more than you.

One of the most reputable climbing equipment companies in the world who are heavily involved in ice climbing equipment failed, after long and extensive testing to produce a screamer that had any benefit and don´t produce one for that reason.
A review of the climbing companies that DON´T produce screamers will tell you a lot.
And from unpublished tests I am convinced that outside of an aid climbing context they are useless, since however they are not dangerous who cares if you are being ripped off.
That there is no UIAA standard for their performance, whereas the same concept as via ferratta protection and industrial fall arrest is tested and a standard required is also worthy of some thought.

Jim Titt wrote: since however they are not dangerous who cares if you are being ripped off..

ahh but according to some people here they "increase the risk" ;)

for rip offs look no further than the $50 "anchor daisy chains", $20 pretied prussics, or those 150$+ dead bird harnesses =P

i do find it interesting that a company like DMM that brags about its 9kn OG biners sells screamers ...

Dana wrote: one could easily say that about the essays Rgold has written on this thread as well eh? No.

Yes.

bla bla bla bla ;) bla bla bla =P bla bla bla bla ;) bla bla bla =P bla bla bla bla ;) bla bla bla =P bla bla bla bla ;) bla bla bla =P bla bla bla bla ;) bla bla bla =P bla bla bla bluff ;) bla bla bla =P bla bla blorff bla ;) bla bla bla =P bla bla bla bla ;) bla bla bla =P bla bla bla bla ;) bla bla bla =P bla bla bla bla ;) bleep bla bla =P bla bla bla bla ;) bla bla bla =P

This is still going? Did you people not go out and climb this weekend? I did, and I used screamers.

What, are you pulling the "Vy can't ve chust climb?" thing now?

Definitely climbed last weekend. Sunny skies, crisp limestone, flickin' other people's dog poop outta the trail for the ladies, Mexican food for dinner with margs. Screamers sat in the gear bin at home.

Stich wrote:What, are you pulling the "Vy can't ve chust climb?" thing now?

huh?

I was simply referring to the fact that I left this thread last week, enjoyed the long weekend and came back and it was still going...Both sides had decent points. rGold published his thesis, then it just wandered from there.

That pretty much summarizes things since then.

Glad I am all caught up. I will continue to use them and continue to follow the first rule of ice climbing - "Don't fall." Thus negating the use of my "bulky quickdraw" in the first place. Good times.

here is a new product out for 2012.

(from the camp site)
Cassin X-Draw

• New for Winter 2012
• Ice Climbing, Alpinism, Mixed Climbing, Trad Climbing
• Engages at 2.5kN and reduces the impact of a factor 1 fall by up to 50%
• Rubber keepers hold the biners securely in place
• Nylon shell protects the stitching from the elements
• Available as a draw only or combined with Photon Wire Gate carabiners for the best possible configuration

Take it easy on your ice screws! The new X-Draw shock absorbing ice draws can reduce the impact of a factor 1 fall by up to 50% thanks to the special construction that forces the draw to rip apart into a large open loop (rated to 22kN) when a fall exceeds 2.5kN. The energy of the fall dissipates before it hits the screw or the climber thereby increasing the chances the screw will hold. Rubber keepers hold the biners securely in place. The nylon shell protects the stitching from the elements and the Dyneema® main loop is hydrophobic so it does not weaken as much as nylon when wet or frozen.

SPECS

X-Draw
ID: 105
Size(s): 18 cm
Weight: 47 g, 1.7 oz
Strength: 22 kN
$35.00 USD

Photon X-Draw
ID: 118
Size(s): 18 cm
Weight: 108 g, 3.8 oz
Strength: 22 kN
$49.95 USD

I could not find any other info on how they got that 50% number,
but they must have done some sort of test?? to claim that..
otherwise it would be false advertising!

Tits McGee wrote:This is still going? Did you people not go out and climb this weekend? I did, and I used screamers.

I thought that was you yelling, I mean wtf, were you birthing a whale or something??

Cor wrote: I could not find any other info on how they got that 50% number, but they must have done some sort of test?? to claim that.. otherwise it would be false advertising!

The problem is there is the miserable 3 foot FF1 with no energy at all for the screamer to absorb, and then there is the 30m FF1 where the amount of energy involved is enough to light up Las Vegas. Which is where the "may" (or in the example you quote "can") comes into the various claims. Read Petzl´s version of this and try to make head or tail out of their opinion!

Tits McGee wrote:...Both sides had decent points.

In the same way that evolutionists and creationists both have decent points. ;-)

rgold, thanks for the input as always. I'm fairly convinced and think I'll stop using screamers, especial since I'm already using a 9.2mm single rope.

Buff Johnson wrote: I thought that was you yelling, I mean wtf, were you birthing a whale or something??

Sorry, I got sketched, so there was a screamer on every screw.