Stuck at leading 5.10! How do I improve leading past 5.10?

Burk S. wrote: Thanks for the advice, I think this will be really helpful. I typically boulder at the circuit so I know what you are referring to. I don't really work on stamina as much as I should. I always thought it was technique holding me back, so I kept trying harder bouldering routes, but what you said makes sense. Thanks for the advice!

Both technique and stamina will help. It's hard to know what will be most helpful without seeing you climb. I suggest asking one of the better climbers at the Circuit what they think - they would be more familiar with the routes over there and also be able to see you climb, which is a huge amount of information.

JLP wrote: The PRC book claims To Bolt or Not to Be at Smith is never harder than V5.

Hehe. Don't believe everything you read in PRC.

famatandi wrote:do you work on your stamina at all? if you're just bouldering during the week and not getting out climbing much, you could just be running out of steam. i used to just boulder at the circuit all the time, which helped me break into 11s, but then i'd need to take tons of hangs because i was so pumped. once i started adding laps and longer gym routes into my routine, i started onsighting 11s. if i can't make it to the gym for some rope climbing, i'll just do the traverse at the circuit over and over again until i'm totally pumped, and then climb every single v0-v3 over and over without any breaks until i can't climb anymore. then i'll rest and start working on my v6 projects. and i agree what people have said about the mental thing. just remind yourself that v6 is pretty hard when you're leading. i got shut down on house of pain at ozone (11a) until i pulled my head out of my ass and told myself that it's only really a v2 and i would have no problem pulling that move at the gym. next time i sent with no problem.

Be careful, this sounds like a great way to get hurt. Getting yourself as fatigued was possible, then trying to do the hardest moves you can, even after a good rest is a recipe for disaster.

The way I broke into leading 11s was by doing endurance sessions in the gym. As a warm-up I'd lead 2 laps on a route well well well within my range. From then on out for the night i would lead 3 laps of a route a full number below what I was climbing. Definition of laps - lead a route, lower, untie, have the belayer pull the rope, tie in and lead the same route a again. Do three times, NO SHAKES, NO TAKES, JUST MOVE-TO-MOVE-TO-MOVE, until i fell or finished the route. It helped me build my mental and physical tolerance for pushing through what i thought was my limit. IMPORTANT: GO UNTIL YOU FINISH OR FALL. NO TAKES. if you fall, lower. That's a lap. Start your next lap. Focus on climbing faster each lap. Each lap you learn the route better. You should climb it faster, NOT STRONGER(you climb stronger the next week during your project days). If you do this endurance session 1-2 times a week in the gym for 3-4 weeks, I am confident you'll notice an improvement on you easier days.

This training helped brake me well into the 11s for sport lead. Hope it helps.

I want to give Jonathan Brandt a shout out for the above training advice, which he gave to my climbing partner King Smith, who in part shared the wisdom with me. "Go for the 'W"!"

Has anyone mentioned simple visualization yet? Funny how we get too specific and ignore fundamentals.
At every chance you get, just repeatedly visualize yourself climbing .11's you are familiar with. Almost every block we face in life is directly related to the mind.

one question i have - are you trying to climb an 11- every time you go out climbing? you should be. also, a great piece of advice that one of the anderson bros posted a long time ago that i have gotten a lot of use from - if you try a route and don't get it. try it again. i can't tell you how many times i have flubbed the shit out of a pitch, made some mental notes, and then sent it 2nd or 3rd try.

Check out some of the free training tips at
masterrockclimber.com/

I think you may be to focused on "numbers", what a 5.10 is for one climber is a 5.11 for another. I was intimidated by Sidewinder 5.10b R in Joshua Tree for years. Once I just decided to get on it I cruised it like it was 5.8 (no kidding) but it turned out every hold was exactly where it needed to be for my height and the climb fit my style also(wasnt a 5.10b for me but really was 5.8, climb long enough and you will find routes like this for you also). Forget about the numbers and just have fun. That said a lot of good advice is in this thread. Also you have a newborn dont ever let your climbing get in the way of what your real priorities should be focused on. I dont have this problem because I dont have kids so I dont have to put them first but you do and should. Stay safe and good luck.

Eric Coffman wrote:I think you may be to focused on "numbers", what a 5.10 is for one climber is a 5.11 for another. I was intimidated by Sidewinder 5.10b R in Joshua Tree for years. Once I just decided to get on it I cruised it like it was 5.8 (no kidding) but it turned out every hold was exactly where it needed to be for my height and the climb fit my style also(wasnt a 5.10b for me but really was 5.8, climb long enough and you will find routes like this for you also). Forget about the numbers and just have fun. That said a lot of good advice is in this thread. Also you have a newborn dont ever let your climbing get in the way of what your real priorities should be focused on. I dont have this problem because I dont have kids so I dont have to put them first but you do and should. Stay safe and good luck.

Nice subtle spray there...

Subtle?

As others have said, head game is probably your biggest obstacle. Try reading the Rock Warrior's Way or another similar book about mental training, commitment, risk assessment, and distinguishing rational and irrational fear. Don't expect to put the book down and never get spooked again, but put the principles into practice and your lead head will improve.

Another thing that distinguishes leading from TR or boulder is the need to hold in a certain stance for a while to place gear or clip. This is especially true with trad but still with sport to some extent. Hangboard work will help you develop the isometric strength to lock off in a stance and hold it while placing gear/clipping, which is a quite different type of strength than that required to do a hard, dynamic boulder problem, for example.

Ryan Nevius wrote:Subtle?

Spray?

My best advice is leave your guidebook at home the next time out to the crag and just look at climbs that look interesting and try them, you will find that when a grade isn't involved you will push yourself harder . It also helps to climb till you fall well above a bolt so that you truly know physical failure or mental.

Honestly I dont even think this is a mental game for you. I have had buddys that were super boulder strong but couldn't do much on routes. These guys have big jacked body types that allow them to campus like beasts on boulder problems but at soon as you get them on a rope they burn themselves out quickly. If my assumptions about your body type are correct, then my advice would be learn how to endurance climb and do a lot of endurance workouts. If you are gased after leading a 5.10, then try to get on a 5.9 and just do laps until you are spent. With time, you will be able to push your grades further.

I feel for you. I too struggle with poor climbing endurance. Power comes pretty naturally, but I find that I have to consciously work hard to progress in sport. Just keep trucking, and don't overlook the need to run laps on a bunch of 'easy' stuff no matter how loudly your ego protests. It'll thank you later. Also, try to strategically approach the route. i.e.: equalize your clipping (equal parts left hand to right hand clips), find good rests and milk 'em, know when to grip hard and when to just cruise, scope the feet - USE your feet, BREATHE.

Also, make down climbing a regular practice.

This stuff helps for me, but I always forget it and have to re-teach myself every few months. But seriously, if you can climb v6 and start diligently working on climbing with your brains & feet, you'll be sending .11s in no time. Good luck.

Climb more

+1 for Arno Ilgners "rock warriors way" and "espresso lessons"

+1 for "performance rock climbing" by udo neumann and dale goddard

Both excellent for the mental game.

Another option (there are tons) is eric horsts training books, he touches on the mental game enough to guide/"free" you from your habits revolving around fear, etc.

Enjoy!

Burk S. wrote: Good point. I have found that the bouldering scales change dramtically where I am. The V6s I have climbed were in the gym, but I have climbed V4 and V5 outside in some local places in Oregon. I will say spots like Joshua Tree is a different beast. I first learned to climb (seriously) at Joshua tree and spent a week there. The best I could do was a V1+ (this was three years ago). I went to Bishop for a week a year ago and was consistently doing V2 and V3. This year is when I did the V4s and V5s. But, also, this was after a lot of falling. But I guess I am still confused, because when I first started climbing I could lead 5.9 but I could only boulder VB, but now I boulder much higher, but my sport climbing only improved slightly.

Although the cruxes of sport routes may be comparable to boulder problems (5.12a ~= V4)a sport route, or trad, is much more comprehensive. If you can boulder outdoors (truly) at a V5 level, (after a lot of falling) you should be able to do some 5.12's (after a lot of falling) provided that endurance isn't the problem.

The simple answer to your improvement is this: Strength (bouldering) see's quick gains, usually in 4-6 weeks of intense training. Local endurance (long climbing w/o pumping out) takes much longer to see significant gains, and lastly power endurance (climbing hard through a pump, 15-40 moves) sees very quick gains (2 weeks?) but also leaves just as fast. So if you mostly boulder, you're putting all your effort into quick(ish) gains, and none into your long term gains such as local endurance.

If you want to get better at trad and sport leading, you should consider getting into the gym and lapping climbs you can do that work you, but don't pump you out or bouldering (VB-V0) non-stop for 10-30 minutes. It'll be very hard if you mostly boulder, but you'll see big gains over time, mostly in your trad/sport.

i agree that if you're bouldering V6 you could be pulling 12 moves on route. that said, everyone has different strengths. for instance, i inconsistently boulder V4, but can TR 12 pretty consistently and lead 11's. if i want to up my game, i know i should probably work on strength. you sound like the opposite. try doing a cycle of endurance training at the gym (or crag if you can!) and see if that helps.

if its more mental than physical i would ask what you do when leading 9 trad that you're having trouble applying to 11 sport. the mental factor of trad 9 should be more comitting generally, so it sounds like you've got the foundations for upping your game. best of luck and enjoy the season.

haha. i just noticed that this thread was started 10 months ago. oh well. i guess i just like to hear myself type.