The AAC and Access Fund. Kiss or Kill?

Malcolm Daly wrote:There are not enough climbers and we don't spend enough money to buy any legislators. If, however, we join with other groups that recreate in the outdoors, we become the third largest private economic engine in the US valued at $646 Billion. If we (climbers, environmentalists, photographers, mountainbikers, horseback, hunters and fishermen, ATVs and motos, backpackers and all the businesses that support the recreation community) could ever get on the same side of the table and form a PAC, then we'd have more juice than all the business sectors except banking and insurance. Read that last sentence again. It's important. Our goal as recreationists is not to be feared. It's to be loved. Cheers, Malcolm

It's already begun to happen: Outdoor Alliance

other wrote:If the access fund position is "we don't work on local access issues and we aren't pro climbing lobbyists", why send them money?

For the record this is not a stance that the Access Fund as an organization supports in any way.

For the record, I am not, I repeat, I AM NOT a representative of the Access Fund or the AAC, for that matter. Fact is I worked for the AF from 1993-2001 and have been a member of the AAC since 1987. I was also the Managing Editor for Rock & Ice from 1987-1991.
During those years, I devoted an inordinate amount of time to climbing advocacy and access issues. My record is second to none. I have no need to prove it to a few people who post hate and castigate others on the internet. To you I say: spend time organizing climbers, meeting with land managers, working on clean up or fundraising events, donating your time or money to the cause. This is the work that gets things done, it’s in the trenches. I know it’s much easier to spew on the internet and tear down others when you haven’t done anything positive to help the cause. It’s much easier to complain than actually do something.
I’ve done my work. It’s now up to you.
I remain a committed climber, but not committed to the climbing community due to discussions such as this.
Sincerely,
Sally Moser

Many of the groups deserve money yet joining many groups gets frigging expensive.
AF theoretically promotes access nationally.
local regions access groups theoretically promotes local access.
AAC for nsurance and other features seem valuable.
ASCA is great for anyone who's ever used a bolt or fixed anchor.
AMGA or other pro organization necessary for guides.
Sierra club or other conservationist outfit so we have wilderness.
IMBA or Local MTB access group for MTBers.
Some kind of wilderness medical training or supplies or donation to SAR team.
total all in Youre looking at over $200+ per year!

Has anyone on here (or know of someone who) used the global rescue insurance? (not intending to make a point, just curious)

Got an email. AAC membership is 10% off today if you've been contemplating it.

HOLIDAY10 is the promo code.

RockinGal wrote: "This is the work that gets things done, it’s in the trenches. I know it’s much easier to spew on the internet and tear down others when you haven’t done anything positive to help the cause. It’s much easier to complain than actually do something.
I’ve done my work. It’s now up to you."

...Well from the A.F. trenches for the past decade, I solute you. Some of us may be on an internet thread but it is only to stay up to date on the Access Issues which we happen to care to do something about. For some of us, we have shared your blood, sweat, and tears and have no need to spray...

I think many would agree that comments such as "what good are you?" would fall into the catagory of "hate" that you so boldy chastise.

...Enjoy retirement!

This isn't the thread to protect your ego and if you're in a position of leadership or were, you need to be open to criticism, it comes with the job. Giving more money is good but doesn't address the original questions I asked. It's easy to say to everyone else "Well, YOU get up and do something!" but in reality not everyone has the chance or free time to do so and this thread is meant to be a free exchange of ideas that people in those positions of opportunity can use or not use, it's up to them. I think we would all like to see a bigger, better, and richer advocacy group for climbers, yes? Well then lets hear the ideas for doing just that.

Here are the original questions re-posted:

-Are you a member of one or both? If so, why?

-How can either of the groups do better?

-Would you be interested in a joint membership?

-What if the AAC library was Netflix style, how much would you pay for that?

-Who can name the president of either group?

-What are the goals of each group?

-Tell us a story, how has the AAC or AF effected your climbing?

-Could a climbers advocacy group ever be a powerful lobbyist?

-Let 'er rip, why are these groups a waste of money, time, and resources?

-Can these groups be feared like the NRA or ATV Assoc? Should they be feared? Should climbers sue for access?

John Wilder- Thank you! You are a stud!!!

It is always frustrating creating an Adopt-a-Crag event, negotiating with land manager, sponsors, and local climbing community to come out only to have 90% of the people who show up at the trail head keep on walking to their current project with nary a head nod or thank you.

We, as climbers, can do better! The sport is designed organically to require mental fortitude, strength, flexibility (both physical and mental), as well as inherently social... All these attributes are what it takes for a user group to get noticed on capital hill, make differences at their local crags, and generally Kick Ass every where they go.

To spray about what YOU did once is fleeting, To contribute to a crag or organization is eternal.

outdoorindustry.org/pdf/OIA…

This is how big we are.

John Wilder wrote: now excuse me, i have to go muscle a bunch of boulders into my truck and drive them out to Day 2 of the Access Funds Future of Fixed Anchors Conference, which I'm helping to host and organize.

Thanks, John! Wish I could have made it. Maybe/hopefully see you next week...(be great to get a report on the conference).

Cheers.

Mr. Holmes wrote:http://www.outdoorindustry.org/pdf/OIA_OutdoorRecEconomyReport2012.pdf This is how big we are.

Quite a report from the outdoorindustry.org. It seems like this might be the group to most effective to spearhead a lobbyist campaign for outdoor recreation. Sadly, if you notice, we don't even make the list of top outdoor activities, biking does though, I wonder why?

The problem with climbers is the great diversity of "ethics". Our ethics hold us back in so many ways. No other sport has ego's surrounding "ethics" the way ours does. Other sports build trails, they build camping spots, they build rapids in a river; they build and impact nature while note bitching about "the place of nature". We argue about who's balls are biggest and why we shouldn't replace an anchor. We continually cut each other down in the name of esoteric ethics and cause more problems for ourselves than all the critics in the world. Rallies cries are about historical precedent, this is what climbing should be, other groups think this, and why we should "keep the masses away". We do not ask how we can accommodate more people and how we can make our sport more appealing. Bikers don't expect other bikers to use 40 pound rigid frames because it makes you more of a man, and fishing has worked out a balance between their versions of sport and trad. If we keep this up, I expect we will be marginalized. Our need to keep the beginners down and the crowds out keeps us as climbers out of the top five and makes us untenable as an advocacy group.

Now excuse me while I go chop every route under 5.12 and every trad anchor to solve this problem.

john wilder-then give $1000/year. Many people think the AF DOESNT keep crags open and shirks its duty, it tells people to contact the local access groups. You donate time doing what? The trails are built. I don't see a need to fix them when they arent broken. The clean up days clean up other people's trash-not climbers. our tax dollars and fees already go to public lands where many climbing areas are.
if youre donating time lobbying elected officials-thats great.
get something straight-if we spend more on non climbing gear purchases you wont have a job in the climbing store.
don't lecture people that are better educated and have jobs making more then minimum wage. thank you

sally thanks for your work on rock and ice and access fund. Please don't act outraged when a charity/political action group - AF-that solicits and gets lots of donations from companies and people is questioned and held accountable.

Jonhy Q wrote: Quite a report from the outdoorindustry.org. It seems like this might be the group to most effective to spearhead a lobbyist campaign for outdoor recreation. Sadly, if you notice, we don't even make the list of top outdoor activities, biking does though, I wonder why?

Makes sense to me. Their counting every bike sold in the country. From kids bikes to high end. How many families have bikes? Lots I should think, and people lay out thousands for bikes everyday.

Do you really think that all mountain bikers agree, some of us who ride may be more inclined to side with conservationist.

I know here in Tucson the MTB community would love to carve bobsled runs into the mountains. But there's no way the local conservation movement would stand for it.

The AF etc are great, but anything can be better. So instead of everyone getting their undies in a bunch how about we talk about making those organizations better.

John Wilder wrote: of course they could be better- they're all human, and they're also extremely under-funded. there's loads of things the AF could be doing better. much of it could be fixed if climbers would step up and participate.

Simply guilt tripping people into participating won't be effective. What sort of things can the AF etc implement to attract more participation?

other wrote: Many people think the AF DOESNT keep crags open and shirks its duty, it tells people to contact the local access groups.

"Catch a man a fish, feed him for a day. Teach him how to fish..."

It would be impossible for the small staff in the Boulder office to, not only keep tabs on every crag, but do something about it.

It is a simple numbers equation: The if the Access Fund can ENABLE local climbers to take interest and investment in their local crags, ORGANIZE, then ACT with Conscientious intent, there is no limit to what can be done for our climbing resources. It should be noted too that they have taken on the lofty task of attempting to prmote all forms of climbing (Traditions, Sport, Mountains,Ice, Boulders.)

They are also the first to offer face to face or phone conference support with those that threraten access- in short, they provide the support for the local climber to be able to sustain the resources we use.

I agree that one of the worst things that can happen though is to spray all night and all day thinking that one person's opinion is the right one. The strength of our climbing community is in it's diversity as much as it's passion. We can all contribute in different ways- that person you chastise for making minum wage is quite possibly the first to show up on a trail day. Making six figures a year? sweet! Pull out your check book and put a deposit down on

How can the Access Fund do more? By having climbers like us step up and work poractively BEFORE there is a fire to put out at their local crag.

A wise old Owl sat in an Oak
The more he saw the less he spoke
The less he spoke the more he heard
We aren't we like that wise old bird?

This is going in circles-we all agree that access is good, safe anchors are good, insurance is good and new gear is good.
We all should send Pro climbing emails and call land managers, bueuacrats and politicans. It's free.
With infinate resources all Deserving causes and groups will be funded and staffed to the hilt. Most of us don't have infinate resources. I for one pick my choices carefully. I pick up my own trash-not every pigs litter. With high gas prices I pick my road trips carefully. There are lots of deserving causes in the world. I think most climbers will write a check or do pro access work but not both. I think most climbers will be conflicted choosing between a new rope, harness and gear, climbing gym membership or the equivalent monetary donation to climbing orgs.
This is where the wealthy Climbers and successful companies that sell $500 jackets made in China should step up.

I was under the impression that Allied Climbers San Diego was involved in San Diego. What did AF do there and at Malibu? And why has there been no news in 9 months about the AF refusing to engage in Williamson Rock? Everyone who used to climb there and now can't and has given to the AF deserves answers, not BS excuses.

Sam Lightner, Jr. wrote: AF seems to be mostly concerned with stuff out in Colorado and other spots...... In California, not much protecting, or even complaining via the courts. We have lost Fossel Falls, Castle Crags, Auburn Quarry and Williamson, without squat being done. Maybe time for AF/California? Classic. I'm gonna guess here, and I admit its a guess, that you have given no support to this non-profit organization that has helped hold back "the man" in San Diego, Josh, Malibu, Pinnacles, The Valley, and every area around Bishop, yet you complain that the relatively obscure crags listed above have not gotten the attention you think they deserve. Yeah, I know, you are the loner-climber who turns his back to society with this sport, thus you don't need to support the organization that supports what you do. Not everyone who does not support the Access Fund (or the AAC) is a self centered idiot... but some are.