Rappel accident - LCC, Utah

Brian in SLC wrote: Seen it work, and, used it m'self!

Is that a superhero suit, and with the gold boots??

rging wrote: I have 4-5 books and have never seen one mention a prusic as a friction knot for rappeling. I have practiced a number of friction knots in this scenario and using a prusic is an absolute nightmare if you actually use it to stop you. Its like wrestling an alligator versus pushing lightly on the autoblock. If you are hanging on a rope it is crucial to use a system that can be operated with one hand. Like I said before, it will work but why.

Check out Climbing Self Rescue by Tyson & Loomis, page 85 "another viable option for a third hand is to tie a PRUSIK around the brake strands.
Most of us have two hands and can use them both to operate our systems. Hence the notion of a 3rd hand.
Any hitch can be wrapped enough so that it is difficult to release or tied loosely enough to slip. But all can be released if the set up is done correctly.
Why? Some people like the idea that a Prusik really bites and choose it because if they are going to go hands free to deal with ropes or do rescue work they feel confident in it. Personal preference as I said in the beginning.
Finally your lack of knowledge is evidenced through inaccurate information, misspellings and use of incorrect terminology in your posts. I persisted down this path so that those who know even less than you, raging would not be led astray.

Done now.

rging wrote:A reasonable method would be to clip the device and caribiner through the rope then all they have to do is clip the caribiner to their belay loop when you get to the bottom and unweight the rope. If someone can't clip a caribiner into their belay loop then their should be three of you and a babysitter. You can do this with multiple devices and people if need be.

Don't do this.

Crag Dweller wrote: A good suggestion. If you're going to do this, it is a good idea to extend the noob's belay device with a sling rather than clipping directly to the harness.

Unnecessary because...

Crag Dweller wrote: Otherwise, you'll be using the noob as the rap anchor. And, standing there holding someone's body weight off your harness while they're rappelling isn't the most comfortable position to be in.

Not an issue when done right.

Stich wrote:A better way to rappel with a noob is to rig their device first at the anchor and then rig your own device after them. You rap first and then give them the fireman belay when they go. Unless they undo their device there is no way they can completely screw it up.

Yes, do this.

Greg D wrote: Yes, do this.

unless the n00b has a knife that is, then you lower them

sfotex wrote: The 25-year-old climber was aided in completing his ascent by 9:30 p.m. and drove himself to a hospital to be checked out. The other climber was lowered by rescuers shortly thereafter and taken to University Hospital in serious but non-life threatening condition.

huh?

The thing that I am most afraid of with simul raps is my partner forgetting he is simul rapping and trying to go off belay as soon as he hits the ground. I saw this once when I was canyoneering. Fortunately it was in swim depth water. The second guy fell ten feet and went completely under. When he came back up he looked pretty pissed. Maybe he thought is was intentional (it was not). We did laugh a bit but that thought stuck with me.

what is the apprioate weight difference that is exceptible between partners when simu rapping?

jeff frame wrote:what is the apprioate weight difference that is exceptible between partners when simu rapping?

If you're experienced, I can't think of a weight difference that for me would be unacceptable. And, I've simul rapp'ed with someone I outweigh by 100 pounds.

Also depends on the terrain and how you're rigged. Again, if you're experienced, then, there isn't a weight difference that would matter (IMHO).

Brian in SLC wrote: If you're experienced, I can't think of a weight difference that for me would be unacceptable. And, I've simul rapp'ed with someone I outweigh by 100 pounds. Also depends on the terrain and how you're rigged. Again, if you're experienced, then, there isn't a weight difference that would matter (IMHO).

A weight difference of 50% of the lighter persons weight is approximately the limit for most metal anchor points. Beyond that and you will probably just end up lifting your partner. You could still do it, but would have to go one at a time, kind of defeating the purpose.

Interesting anecdote: I Knew a guy who rapped off his end while simul-rapping, high up on a multi-pitch because his partner was saying " whatchyourend, whatchyourend, watchyourend," in a thick aussie accent, and he thought he was saying "watchout" or something, as in "rock", so he was looking up, and didn't notice the impending doom.

Just got done with a discussion of this over on SuperTopo .

Have a look at

supertopo.com/climbing/thre…

After this post, I started wondering whether the impression of extra speed really amounts to all that much:

supertopo.com/climbing/thre…

and

supertopo.com/climbing/thre…,

which contains further links to other discussions.