Dangerous Fiasco on Alexander's Chimney Tuesday

Tevis Blom wrote:The guide was soloing the route between anchors and then bringing up his clients; pretty easy to catch us that way.

So if something "happens" to the guide, you have two people stuck on the wall which either SAR or another party will have to rescue.

Sounds like a responsible business model. Do most guiding services follow this or something similar? Just curious.

yep, likewise, if something had happened to one of his clients, he barely had any rack to bail with.

We've bailed on plenty of lines because someone beat us to the base. Try hiking up to the base of Gambit at 6am to find out we weren't the first! But we found another route to climb instead of risking being behind someone else and causing a log jam.

Our rule for long routes is never behind another party. Either they will be slow, blocking access all day. Or they will be fast, and dropping stuff. Either way, no need to be right on someone's tail.

In speaking of dangerous fiasco on Alexander's...

Who ever took a shit at/on the top of the first pitch
is a real asshole! It is smeared down the ice, and stinks!

Go take yer shit somewhere else, or dig a hole in the giant
mound of snow, and cover it up. You suck.

Thank you.

Buff Johnson wrote:Colorado is such a shit show when it comes to ice climbing

For Cor

Scott McMahon wrote: So if something "happens" to the guide, you have two people stuck on the wall which either SAR or another party will have to rescue. Sounds like a responsible business model. Do most guiding services follow this or something similar? Just curious.

Most guides place some pro (more to protect the seconds than themselves)but honestly, when you're guiding climbs like that, it's the equivalent of soloing. The clients most likely just learned to belay and the odds of them catching you is pretty slim, so it's pretty much a no fall situation.

The other consideration about placing gear is, your clients climb slow, so the less gear you place saves you time in several ways, one is it takes less time for you to stop and place (not that it takes that long) but then the clients have to remove the gear (which they frequently struggle with, and you have to exchange the gear at the belay. So the less fussing with gear, the faster you move.

Also it's not like clients can build anchors and rap down a route like most climbers would, if the guide gets hurt, some sort of rescue is going to have to happen.

Many years ago, I was guiding the Snaz in the Tetons. My client and I were 3 or 4 pitches up the route, having gotten a stupid-early start, and along comes a party of two that I quickly noticed was climbing very fast. It turns out it was Mugs Stump guiding a client, and they were hauling ass because Mugs was leading, belay to belay, without placing any gear. He caught us at the top of the wide crack, and when I commented to Mugs about the lack of pro, he looked at me, grinned, and said, "it's good training for the alpine". That seemed to me an appropriate "business model" for the circumstances.

Climbing situations are not always the same, and applying a rigid set of rules such as "a faster party can only pass when given permission" is unrealistic, and also not in the spirit of climbing.

Interesting about the guiding as I don't have any familiarity. I guess unless you are guiding other experience climbers you don't have much choice, and like was stated it's almost soloing anyways.

Thanks!

Cor wrote:In speaking of dangerous fiasco on Alexander's... Who ever took a shit at/on the top of the first pitch is a real asshole! It is smeared down the ice, and stinks! Go take yer shit somewhere else, or dig a hole in the giant mound of snow, and cover it up. You suck. Thank you.

+1

bunch of whining bitches. Either get up earlier, hike faster, or trundle a dinner plate special on those fucks who CLIMBED FASTER AS A PARTY OF 3?

What's happening to our sport?
In the nineteen seventies Respect, Safety, Good Sportmanship and Comraderie were taught as core values for a climber.
Lets get it back.

Rick McL wrote:What's happening to our sport? In the nineteen seventies Respect, Safety, Good Sportmanship and Comraderie were taught as core values for a climber. Lets get it back.

To whom is this comment directed? The OP or the PARTY OF 3 that "passed" them even though they were ON A DIFFERENT ROUTE?

And the Robins/ Harding squabble is just ONE well publicized example of how your revisionist history of climbing back in the day is complete and utter bull shit. Fairly sure that Beckey's pissed of more than a hand full of climbers as well.

Reginald McChufferton wrote: To whom is this comment directed? The OP or the PARTY OF 3 that "passed" them even though they were ON A DIFFERENT ROUTE? And the Robins/ Harding squabble is just ONE well publicized example of how your revisionist history of climbing back in the day is complete and utter bull shit. Fairly sure that Beckey's pissed of more than a hand full of climbers as well.

McChufferton your my hero!!! +1

Reginald,
I'm not sure how you've concluded that I've revised the history of my own climbing life, or climbing history in general, and that it is bull shit, but I respect your view regardless of how you've reached it.
My intent is to inject some civility into the dialogue and prevent people from thinking that it's OK to send blocks of ice down on ill tempered climbers below, wether or not you passed them or they passed you, or whatever.
Perhaps the future of our sport is sending an elbow to the jaw of another climber on a crowded belay, but it really wasn't like that in the past. It was cool. When we met people at the base of a climb, or on a route, we went out and partied that night together and made lifetime friends, not enemies.
I taught my kids respect, safety, good sportmanship and comraderie as values to apply in all aspects of their lives, including climbing. It seems to have served them well, as it would you.
No bullshit.

Reginald McChufferton wrote: To whom is this comment directed? The OP or the PARTY OF 3 that "passed" them even though they were ON A DIFFERENT ROUTE? And the Robins/ Harding squabble is just ONE well publicized example of how your revisionist history of climbing back in the day is complete and utter bull shit. Fairly sure that Beckey's pissed of more than a hand full of climbers as well.

For the reading comprehension impaired I'll quote myself:
Due to rope drag, my partner was belaying directly below the crux of P1. There was clearly no where for us to go but to continue on the climb, and was had told the same party were were doing this climb when we encountered them at the parking lot.

In order to pass us, they had to climb directly over and around my partner, to the point that they would've stabbed him with their crampons had they fallen.

--
We may have started slightly off route, but we were most definitely NOT on a different route. Unless you somehow consider a belay set in the middle of a pitch that is perhaps 4 feet wide at the point "a different route". There was no ambiguity here.

Christian Mason wrote: For the reading comprehension impaired I'll quote myself: Due to rope drag, my partner was belaying directly below the crux of P1. There was clearly no where for us to go but to continue on the climb, and was had told the same party were were doing this climb when we encountered them at the parking lot. In order to pass us, they had to climb directly over and around my partner, to the point that they would've stabbed him with their crampons had they fallen. -- We may have started slightly off route, but we were most definitely NOT on a different route. Unless you somehow consider a belay set in the middle of a pitch that is perhaps 4 feet wide at the point "a different route". There was no ambiguity here.

Yeah. I know you keep saying that. And it doesn't make anymore sense than the first time you said it. You started on a varient and this slow TEAM OF THREE started on the actual route and passed you as you tried to Bogart their direct line. We get it.

And then you came onto MP to piss and moan about it and get the old guys all riled up to the point that they get all misty eyed and pretend that back in the day shit like this didn't happen.

Hope you're enjoying this. Rick's pacemaker is about to give out because you've got him so upset.

Christian Mason wrote: For the reading comprehension impaired I'll quote myself: Due to rope drag, my partner was belaying directly below the crux of P1. There was clearly no where for us to go but to continue on the climb, and was had told the same party were were doing this climb when we encountered them at the parking lot. In order to pass us, they had to climb directly over and around my partner, to the point that they would've stabbed him with their crampons had they fallen. -- We may have started slightly off route, but we were most definitely NOT on a different route. Unless you somehow consider a belay set in the middle of a pitch that is perhaps 4 feet wide at the point "a different route". There was no ambiguity here.

YAWN.

mcChufferton,
That wasn't very nice.
Actually that name sounds familiar. Wait a minute, I remember you. Your the boy that Richard Simmons brought into Childrens Hospital last year during Pride Fest because there was a GI Joe lodged in your rectum. When we asked Richard why GI Joe was in your rectum he said it was because your Barbie dolls breasts were too big to get past your sphicter.
If you were an accomplished pickle smuggler you would have taken Barbie all the way. Keep at it, you'll get there.

Now thats funny. Beat that.

Rick McL wrote:mcChufferton, That wasn't very nice. Actually that name sounds familiar. Wait a minute, I remember you. Your the boy that Richard Simmons brought into Childrens Hospital last year during Pride Fest because there was a GI Joe lodged in your rectum. When we asked Richard why GI Joe was in your rectum he said it was because your Barbie dolls breasts were too big to get past your sphicter. If you were an accomplished pickle smuggler you would have taken Barbie all the way. Keep at it, you'll get there. Now thats funny. Beat that.

Accusing Richard Simmons of pedophilia in a bigoted and homophobic attempt at humor is not something I'd care to compete with. But you have fun with that if that's the sort of thing that helps you get it up at least once every six months.

Rick McL wrote: I taught my kids respect, safety, good sportmanship and comraderie as values to apply in all aspects of their lives, including climbing. It seems to have served them well, as it would you. No bullshit.

Pot...meet kettle.

Nice to know that you're all for respect towards your fellow climbers, unless they happen to be gay. Then you'll insinuate that because they're gay they also like to fuck children with action figures.

You sound like a high quality individual.

Cor wrote:In speaking of dangerous fiasco on Alexander's... Who ever took a shit at/on the top of the first pitch is a real asshole! It is smeared down the ice, and stinks! Go take yer shit somewhere else, or dig a hole in the giant mound of snow, and cover it up. You suck. Thank you.

Perhaps a marmot?

Marmots shit don't stink!