Dangerous Fiasco on Alexander's Chimney Tuesday

Kenan wrote: Can someone please link me to the original source of this long-running joke?! I've seen it referenced so many times and want so badly to laugh along, but just have no idea where it came from!

It is a retort to any and all of the front range ice climbers whining about how little ice there is in CO. Mainly because of the lack of ice that isn't a 3 minute walk from the car and the ice that has zero approach is getting all "climbed out" by NOOBS.

So if you don't like it...INSERT Quip about Canadian Ice Season HERE.

Tits McGee wrote: It is a retort to any and all of the front range ice climbers whining about how little ice there is in CO. Mainly because of the lack of ice that isn't a 3 minute walk from the car and the ice that has zero approach is getting all "climbed out" by NOOBS. So if you don't like it...INSERT Quip about Canadian Ice Season HERE.

Hmm I see. I figured there was a more memorable 'incident' that was the source of the joke. How anticlimatic. ;-)

I belive this thread is the original source of the ice climbing in Canada threat.

mountainproject.com/v/defec…

Scott McMahon wrote:I belive this thread is the original source of the ice climbing in Canada threat. mountainproject.com/v/defec…

this is the correct source of the "meme"...

Tits, Internet Hardman is mistaken on this one.

Scott McMahon wrote:I belive this thread is the original source of the ice climbing in Canada threat. mountainproject.com/v/defec…

Ahhh yes, this is it. I vaguely remember the tent fiasco but hadn't read through the whole thread. Amusing and disturbing at the same time... like some kind of low-budget soap opera. Then again, that describes many MP threads.

thanks for the context

Jon Zucco wrote: this is the correct source of the "meme"... Tits, Internet Hardman is mistaken on this one.

Wow, I that's a first.

Tits McGee wrote: Wow, I that's a first.

There's a first time for everything my friend. haha

Colorado is such a shit show when it comes to ice climbing

I have no idea what this climb looks like, nor have I ever even ice climbed before, but if I got to the base of a rock climb and saw another party 20 feet to the left of the climb I'm planning on doing, I wouldn't even think that they're doing the same climb. So, I don't think they were in the bad when they started.

Then, you said they passed you at the first belay? Was this belay still 20 feet off to the left, or was it right on top of them? If the former, I guess I still don't see the problem. If the latter, you didn't have enough courage to speak up then and tell them to back off? Why wait until the day after to post on MP? Even if you were off to the left, you couldn't mention to them "hey, we started on a variation here so you're going to be in our way"?

Regardless of what happened, complaining about it on MP isn't the answer. Anonymous people on the internet isn't the best place to look for validation.

Rowdy Wrangellian wrote:Sounds like a rat race from the parking lot. Maybe the Climbing Rangers should put in some new climber/hiker registration forms at the trail-head to give people an idea of who's on what route. I like how the Black Canyon has a dry erase board for climbers to sign in and out on.

-1

Jeff Kent wrote: Easy Diaphragm, easy:) Get yourself out of your little junky bubble in Rock Springs and go climbing. I've been up Longs more times than you can count. Yes, more than ten. Next time I'm at Subway at Little America I'll give you and your sis a shout.

=AWESOME!!! actually this whole thread is really 1st rate!

Hank Caylor wrote: =AWESOME!!! actually this whole thread is really 1st rate!

Hopefully the other party shows up. That always makes these threads so much better.

Ian Stewart wrote:I have no idea what this climb looks like, nor have I ever even ice climbed before, but if I got to the base of a rock climb and saw another party 20 feet to the left of the climb I'm planning on doing, I wouldn't even think that they're doing the same climb. So, I don't think they were in the bad when they started. Then, you said they passed you at the first belay? Was this belay still 20 feet off to the left, or was it right on top of them? If the former, I guess I still don't see the problem. If the latter, you didn't have enough courage to speak up then and tell them to back off? Why wait until the day after to post on MP? Even if you were off to the left, you couldn't mention to them "hey, we started on a variation here so you're going to be in our way"? Regardless of what happened, complaining about it on MP isn't the answer. Anonymous people on the internet isn't the best place to look for validation.

I would be inclined to agree with you for the most part. It sounds like a major lack of communication and understanding of the route variations really. But the way the OP describes the shenanigans leads one to believe that the "offending" party was rude, dangerous and uncooperative.

AND; where else would one seek a more efficient form of validation if not MP? If you know of a better place to share frivolous yet somewhat educational/entertaining stories and spray about climbing, please, do share!

rabble rabble rabble!
Ethics and junk!

Alexanders Chimney is a long way to hike for a fight about who got there first.........

Ian Stewart wrote:I have no idea what this climb looks like, nor have I ever even ice climbed before, but if I got to the base of a rock climb and saw another party 20 feet to the left of the climb I'm planning on doing, I wouldn't even think that they're doing the same climb. So, I don't think they were in the bad when they started. Then, you said they passed you at the first belay? Was this belay still 20 feet off to the left, or was it right on top of them? If the former, I guess I still don't see the problem. If the latter, you didn't have enough courage to speak up then and tell them to back off? Why wait until the day after to post on MP? Even if you were off to the left, you couldn't mention to them "hey, we started on a variation here so you're going to be in our way"? Regardless of what happened, complaining about it on MP isn't the answer. Anonymous people on the internet isn't the best place to look for validation.

Due to rope drag, my partner was belaying directly below the crux of P1. There was clearly no where for us to go but to continue on the climb, and was had told the same party were were doing this climb when we encountered them at the parking lot.

In order to pass us, they had to climb directly over and around my partner, to the point that they would've stabbed him with their crampons had they fallen.

I DID call them on it at the time. First telling their leader that they was they passed us was not safe, then pointing out to one of their seconds that what the were doing was against normal climbing ethics and directly endangered our safety.

I fully acknowledge that I could have handled this better. It would have been more mature of me to bail when they passed, rather than returning the favor and continuing a dangerous situation. To be honest, the option didn't occur to me at the time, and I was trying to get out of the line of fire as quickly as possible. A pitch later, we made the correct decision and bailed.

I'm also not posting this for points, or to shame anyone. I haven't named the climbers involved, and I'm not looking for some form of validation or sympathy. After speaking to a climbing friend (who mentioned something similar a week or two ago) it seemed worth putting out there publicly that passing other parties without permission in an ice funnel = endangering their lives.

Jon Zucco wrote: I would be inclined to agree with you for the most part. It sounds like a major lack of communication and understanding of the route variations really. But the way the OP describes the shenanigans leads one to believe that the "offending" party was rude, dangerous and uncooperative. AND; where else would one seek a more efficient form of validation if not MP? If you know of a better place to share frivolous yet somewhat educational/entertaining stories and spray about climbing, please, do share!

I can think of one reason not to seek validation on MP: Because people like Ian Stewart (who you quoted) who have never seen the route or climbed ice feel their opinion is important in this matter. If you've never seen the route or even iced climbed, then how could you possibly know what the OP was going through??

Christian Mason wrote:...we had told the same party were were doing this climb when we encountered them at the parking lot. In order to pass us, they had to climb directly over and around my partner, to the point that they would've stabbed him with their crampons had they fallen. I DID call them on it at the time. First telling their leader that they was they passed us was not safe, then pointing out to one of their seconds that what the were doing was against normal climbing ethics and directly endangered our safety.

Thanks for clearing some of those things up, as it now paints a completely different picture in my head and does make it seem like a very dangerous situation that they put you in. (And I probably shouldn't have said that you're "seeking validation", sorry about that).

I guess what I meant to say with my post is that if they really are putting you in danger, don't call them out on it AFTER it happens. It's not like they were beneath you then instantly above you; climbing past you must have taken time and you would have seen it happen, right? If somebody was putting me in danger, I wouldn't wait any second longer than needed to tell them to back the fuck off, regardless of the sport (I haven't needed to do this while climbing yet, but I have while biking). Some people are dicks and the only way to "fight" them is to be assertive. And some people really just don't know any better.

John Fatseas wrote:I can think of one reason not to seek validation on MP: Because people like Ian Stewart (who you quoted) who have never seen the route or climbed ice feel their opinion is important in this matter. If you've never seen the route or even iced climbed, then how could you possibly know what the OP was going through??

You're right, I didn't have any idea what Christian was going through, which is why I asked questions in my post. My mistake was saying that he was "seeking validation", as I appologized for above, but I don't think that takes away from my opinion that you need to put your safety first; certainly before your fear of confrontation with strangers who are putting your life in danger.

Ian Stewart wrote: Thanks for clearing some of those things up, as it now paints a completely different picture in my head and does make it seem like a very dangerous situation that they put you in. (And I probably shouldn't have said that you're "seeking validation", sorry about that). I guess what I meant to say with my post is that if they really are putting you in danger, don't call them out on it AFTER it happens. It's not like they were beneath you then instantly above you; climbing past you must have taken time and you would have seen it happen, right? If somebody was putting me in danger, I wouldn't wait any second longer than needed to tell them to back the fuck off, regardless of the sport (I haven't needed to do this while climbing yet, but I have while biking). Some people are dicks and the only way to "fight" them is to be assertive. And some people really just don't know any better. You're right, I didn't have any idea what Christian was going through, which is why I asked questions in my post. My mistake was saying that he was "seeking validation", as I appologized for above, but I don't think that takes away from my opinion that you need to put your safety first; certainly before your fear of confrontation with strangers who are putting your life in danger.

No worries, and I agree completely. I'm normally pretty straight forward and assertive. In fact, people that won't be direct kind of irk me.

My partner and I would both incredulous when they first passed, and it took me a few minutes to collect my thoughts beyond "WTF are they doing?". While I mentioned it shortly afterward, I do wish I'd thought at the time to just call them on it before they exposed us to danger.

Had a similar experience many years ago (not on ice though). We were the first party on a ~10 pitch moderate yosemite route.

A very famous speed climber was guiding two clients (guide wearing approach shoes on 5.10!). Don't get me wrong, dude is Bad A, and has every right to pass when he is climbing with someone else who is fast.

But, he climbed right over my rope and established an unusual anchor 10 feet above me, which also created a piss poor rope crossing situation. Proceeded to introduce himself, and brought his two followers up simultaneously (neither of which could lead the route).

The guide was soloing the route between anchors and then bringing up his clients; pretty easy to catch us that way. He then tried to pass us on a 'crowded variation' to beat us to the upper pitches. What a bastard, needing to pass us with clients who can't even lead!

We raced through the next section, barely placing any gear to beat Captain Douche master and his followers. We beat him to the cut off as his clients struggled through the harder bypass version. We had a cordial lunch at the top next to them, before they rushed to get to the rappels before us.

Dude is a Bad A climber; doesn't change the fact that he is an arrogant SOB with no ethics toward other climbers. If dude had been climbing with an equal instead of guiding, we would have sat back and watched in awe. Pretty lame to trail noobs in front of us.
Sucks people have to climb up yer rear and cause stupid situations when there are so many other options nearby.