Quick way to chop bolts?

Considering this dudes general attitude, do you think removing his bolts may cause him to throw a tantrum and plug more in?

I mean he isn't responding to your reasoning.

This looks like it works pretty well.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMW6IyaS_4M&playnext=1&list=PL8370286AA00B9E43&feature=results_main

Brian Scoggins wrote: That's specifically for top-rope soloing the route, determining where the bolts should go, then drilling, provided the whole route is very steep. So that's by somebody who actually knows his ass from a hole in the ground, and if you don't know what its for, then you need to stop right now, because you don't know enough about bolting to do anything than make a mess.

Thanks, that's totally whats going on here.
After reading your post it all started to make sense.
It has taken us a really long time to find this cliff and I was floored to think that those kids could have found it, especially since its almost 2 miles from the nearest road. I remember thinking that it was on a nice looking climb too. I'll be sure to leave those alone. :)

chufftard wrote:cordless sawzall or dremel. fuk cavers

A sawzall will, as its name implies, saw all. It is, however, super slow at cutting any hard metal and you will almost certainly gouge the everloving shit out of the rock. A cordless 4" angle grinder with a thin cut off wheel will work much quicker and more safely (for the rock, the shrapnel can be a real shit storm).

Just as a diletante moron with a drill can do some serious damage, so can a well intentioned person with a bag full of tools he doesn't know how to use.

I seem to recall Chris Macnamara writing about replacing bolts, using a 30" pinch bar to extract the duds.

Flies and honey dude, not vinegar.

My suggestion is to talk to The Caving Community. Seriously! The word on the street is that they are not too happy with all this lollygagging you have been doing on here...
live and let live or in plain English : stay da f**k away from my bolts!!!!!

momma wrote:My suggestion is to talk to The Caving Community. Seriously! The word on the street is that they are not too happy with all this lollygagging you have been doing on here...

agree! The cavers are pissed !

Kinda hard to follow, but didn't the OP's version of the bolters go from kid cavers, to a guy zooking in bolts to learn how, to a guy wildly flinging holds off a route on top rope, to some actual experienced developers? Kinda sounds like the encounter I had in the woods a few years back with the Devils Rejects family slaughtering children and eating them that actually turned out to be a bird-watching club.

El Tigre wrote:Kinda hard to follow, but didn't the OP's version of the bolters go from kid cavers, to a guy zooking in bolts to learn how, to a guy wildly flinging holds off a route on top rope, to some actual experienced developers? Kinda sounds like the encounter I had in the woods a few years back with the Devils Rejects family slaughtering children and eating them that actually turned out to be a bird-watching club.

Yep, turns out they had nothing to do with it. I eventually got a hold of the one who bolted the above mentioned and he said it wasnt him or anyone else he knows which was my initial concern.
(he does have a long list of things he's bolted which have little to no use to the general public, after I got a senior member of the groto to speak with him about his actions a while back it seems like he hasnt bolted anything else and even promised to remove some of his bolts him self)

I thought it was odd, this place is like 2 miles from the closest road. We found it by looking through topo maps of the area and systematically checking each bluff for some potential climbing. In the process we found some other climbs on an adjacent bluffs with rusted open shuts and an old chopped sport route (obviously very old). Eventually we drove around every near by road until we found a sleepy little culda-sack to park.

The first time we made it out to this area we even went so far as to have someone drop us off for three days and we hiked to every corner of this 900 ft deep gorge.

A lot of established climbing areas are getting closed for some reason or another. The most recent has been opened since the late 70's and was closed because a group camped out clearly ignoring the posted signs and then was disrespectful to the land owner when he confronted them at 1 am.

I may have jumped to conclusions, but when I thought that that group had made it out to this bluff that we worked so hard to discover, I freaked. Hopefully you guys can understand that.

This past year we've had nothing but grand dreams of bolting the area with hand drills, running out the easy stuff, and keeping it mixed not exclusively sport.

Now that I know who ever it is, they know what they are doing. I can relax a little.

I dont dislike bolting new routes or anything, you often have to if you want to unlock a certain line. I just want people to impact the rock as little as possible. Why not tie a sling around that tree with a rap ring instead of double bolt anchors? or use a fixed pin? Thats what concerns me about people running around with bolt guns.

Also, cavers are cool by me, didnt want you to think I had something against them. its just that's their back ground, sorry to all those who I offended.

Someone who established a very wild area in TN, the only multipitch trad climbing, and the only A3+ told me I should drill my first 100 bolts with a hand drill. I think if more people did that they would have time to think about what they are doing and how many uses that one bolt will have.

chufftard wrote: because it kills the tree (most nutrients travel in the circumference near the bark), fixed pins are way less safe and permanent. do a bit more research before spraying your trad radness on the interwebs

I dont really think a fixed sling with a rap ring is that detrimental. I think placing and removing slings over and over for pro is, or repelling directly off a tree and then pulling your rope around the bark. A lot of places around here still use slings on trees and the trees are all still fine.

For example:

Oh No!

Considering the little traffic these places see, this setup works fine, and the tree is no worse off.

The first pitch of this route has a fixed #2 kb, besides that, this sling, and one at the top of the next pitch, that was all they used to equip the route. But I guess your entitled to your opinion...

trr2ke wrote:Now I'm no advocate of destroying someone's hard work so don't think that's whats going on. Apparently the kids of caving community around here all got bolt guns for Christmas and bolts are going up like crazy. Used for things like tying up there eno's and fixing rap lines when there are plenty of trees all around. Well enough is enough i say so i've decided to go around yanking them all out. I've talked with a few of the old dudes of the climbing community and they mentioned using a modified car jack. I was thinking a 5lb slide hammer, or someone else had mentioned just taking a hack saw blade and sliding it behind the hanger. Once the bolt is out or at least chopped then I need to fill it with some sort of epoxy; jb weld? Spackle? bondo? Thanks for any advise.

I agree with others, leave the bolts alone and speak to the people installing them for now. Chopping them is only going to piss someone off who may just come back and replace them and possibly give you four flat tires the next time they see your vehicle. Talk first, then possibly act later.

Don't chop bolts once there up that's just stupid. Don't put bolts into the rock.

trr2ke wrote:  I should drill my first 100 bolts with a hand drill. I think if more people did that they would have time to think about what they are doing and how many uses that one bolt will have.

I absolutely agree with this statement.

having all that climbing tat (aka garbage) on the tree really sucks in my opinion and looks way worse then two bolts. When you have two discretely placed camo'd bolts the anchors are all but invisible vs well... that image.

I'd also point out that while those slings likely won't damage the tree... having the anchor there clearly leads to increased traffic directly on the roots and soil at the base of the tree which leads to a whole host of other management issues. I also notice that your rope is being pulled across and through the branches of the tree. No doubt you would have to climb through those branches and likely grab onto them to assist in weighting the rope. Basically a big FAIL IMO. Throw in a bolt or two and save the ledge.

"I dont dislike bolting new routes or anything, you often have to if you want to unlock a certain line."

I think what you meant to say was that bolts are needed for YOU to unlock a certain line. Or are you saying that because you can't climb it on gear, no one can? Admittedly, I don't know the area, but for an example of where this mindset really reached its' apgee, check out the compressor route on Cerro Torre.

Locker wrote:"By chufftard 6 days ago cordless sawzall or dremel. fuk cavers" Cosmic?

Is that "the" Cosmic?

CaptainMo wrote:having all that climbing tat (aka garbage) on the tree really sucks in my opinion and looks way worse then two bolts. When you have two discretely placed camo'd bolts the anchors are all but invisible vs well... that image. I'd also point out that while those slings likely won't damage the tree... having the anchor there clearly leads to increased traffic directly on the roots and soil at the base of the tree which leads to a whole host of other management issues. I also notice that your rope is being pulled across and through the branches of the tree. No doubt you would have to climb through those branches and likely grab onto them to assist in weighting the rope. Basically a big FAIL IMO. Throw in a bolt or two and save the ledge.

Well, I guess we can (or at least I can) agree to disagree. Often with situations like this, when the traffic increases to the point that real evident damage is being done to the tree bolts will be placed to help protect it. Apparently you guys are a little more preemptive and some would say haphazard. But yes, you do have to maneuver around the branches, all part of the Tree=Anchor system.

Jace Mullen wrote:"I dont dislike bolting new routes or anything, you often have to if you want to unlock a certain line." I think what you meant to say was that bolts are needed for YOU to unlock a certain line. Or are you saying that because you can't climb it on gear, no one can? Admittedly, I don't know the area, but for an example of where this mindset really reached its' apgee, check out the compressor route on Cerro Torre.

So your saying you think it was a travesty that it got chopped and that the people who chopped the route are in the wrong? If not, I think you may have misunderstood the point of this tread. I'm advocating the use of natural pro and fixed gear, and more importantly, that when someone gets a bolt gun and then uses it to drill bolts so he can hang up his eno hammock or raps down from the top and drills a line prior to working it first (and then failing to climb it after he bolts it), well that person is in the wrong and we all shouldn't have to suffer looking at his dumb mistakes.

chufftard wrote: good luck, try not to die or kill others.

Will do, thanks for the input.

This thread is dumb, I'm going climbing.

trr2ke wrote:This thread is dumb, I'm going climbing.

Best idear yet... just cause I have admin under my name doesn't mean as much as people make out of it... It really just means that i have too much time in front of a computer ;-)

I don't endorse Chuff's comments but I think you have a good spectrum of comments on this one! Take it for what it's worth... we have cliffs here in CT that have had the top environs all but destroyed from folks that think like yourself. Here's some food for thought: