Ice Screws: Open question to the old boys
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I am relatively rookie in the world of waterfall ice. 5 days out over the last couple years. Enjoyed the shit out of it each time but it is also goddamn terrifying. Well I've changed my panties since last year and I'd like to commit to this a bit more but that requires the dropping of a pile of coin to get enough screws to get my pumped arms and shaking knees to the top of what I'm aiming at. |
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In my opinion the BD's are the best. They have less fuss than the others and they rack easier. Putting them in when your pumped isn't as easy as it is with the Grivel's, but everythiing else about them is easier. |
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Yes, the spinny ones are great. I have a complete history of ice screws going back to Salewas and Warthogs...geez. Talk about improvements! They're in the history chest, believe. |
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Basic screws are significantly cheap. Far better than the old POS screws, too. |
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Thanks guys for responses- In the 5 times I've been out, I went with 4 different guys so I got to try out a pile of different brands(not always on lead). If cost wasn't a factor, I'm pretty sold on the BD express. I can easily see saving the cash for your couple of screws intended purely for v-threading and equalizing anchors where speed doesn't matter, but for the pro being placed with one hand I'm hearing kinda mixed messages- yes you guys climb on knobless screws (thanks for the term stephan) but if you had a wealthy benefactor you wouldn't? |
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IanWarrington wrote:Thanks guys for responses- In the 5 times I've been out, I went with 4 different guys so I got to try out a pile of different brands(not always on lead). If cost wasn't a factor, I'm pretty sold on the BD express. I can easily see saving the cash for your couple of screws intended purely for v-threading and equalizing anchors where speed doesn't matter, but for the pro being placed with one hand I'm hearing kinda mixed messages- yes you guys climb on knobless screws (thanks for the term stephan) but if you had a wealthy benefactor you wouldn't? @ bob- what do I need screamers for? I thought the number one rule of ice climbing was "don't fall" ;)I use knobless on the really long screw for v thread or anchors, but I'll always reach for the turbo's on lead. Once you get the teeth to bite it's all good, but the turbos crank in pretty fast. The less time I can spend in one spot the better, but I'm not exactly Chazz Michaels Michaels on ice. And sure don't fall, but if you do wouldn't you want to displace the weight of your fall as much as possible? Think of it as safer quickdraw that puts less stress on the ice. FYI don't use one for your first screw. I doubt you'd generate enough force to activate it, but you don't want to activate your butt to the ground. |
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Scott McMahon wrote: Think of it as safer quickdraw that puts less stress on the ice. FYI don't use one for your first screw. I doubt you'd generate enough force to activate it, but you don't want to activate your butt to the ground.Forces are greatest when there's less rope out. So the first couple screws are REAL GOOD candidates for Screamers. As are any screws in poor ice. OP - You see a lot of posts by folks selling non-spinny screws b/c most folks eventually realize that new screws are signif. better than old, and they bite the bullet and buy a bunch of the latest-and-greatest. Non-spinny screws are cheap ($20 or less) b/c no one would buy them otherwise. Can you climb with them? Absolutely. A trick I used to do was to have a winder handle (like the Petzl Turbine, which might not be sold anymore) on a retractable cord. I'd get the screw started by hand, then pull out the winder - which provided WAY more leverage than the typical hanger-mounted knob a-la BD Express - and fire the thing in. Then the winder retracted back onto the shoulder sling where it sat out of the way. Only problem with that system was my partners had to unscrew the screws by hand. |
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I really can't see any good reason to use screws without the spinny knobs, unless you just want to carry a screw or two for general mountaineering that you plan to never place when on a pump clock. I have 10 screws that all have the spinny knobs. Two of them are 12cm Grivel Speedy screws that are my go-to crux pieces. If you are indeed living near Roger's Pass, give me a shout this winter and you can try out my system sometime. I'm still new to Kamloops though, so I don't know where all the good ice is around BC. |
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Haven't been sending screws to the head as long as Sam, and I respect his opinion, |
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He spoke the truth above: |
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The only other explanation (besides saving money) for climbing on knobless screws I could think of is to prevent an accidental rope damage that supposedly could happen if you don't crank the knobs back after you're done boring in the Express screws. |
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I carry one BD Turbo screw in 22cm. It is only for cutting V-Threads. Otherwise all the rest are express with knobs. |
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The product info for BD does tell you to reset the knob. The newer screws also have the closer clip-in point for a better angle on an overhanging placement, or for use as an extra point at the anchor. They work fine for me. Easy to rack and pull off the harness, also. |
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I want to second some of the comments about the Grivel screws. For close to 20 years, it was BD screws or nothing. I used a friends helix last year and they are just as good as the BDs (hanger might be better). |
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paintrain wrote:One other comment, you have to keep the teeth SHARP!. A good screw can be awful if you can't get it to bite because the teeth have dulled from use. Get a small triangular file and learn how to maintain them. PT^^^This iz korrekt! I keep a separate small (3"-4") file in my crampon bag for touching up screw points, if necessary, when back in camp between days on the ice. |
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I'm really surprised nobody has said this already, so I guess I'll bend rule 1. If you've only been out on ice five times, what are you doing on lead? Even if you're a fantastic rock leader, you're still a new ice climber. Building up a rack for the future is a good thing, but pushing yourself on lead from (almost) day one is just a bad idea. Perhaps I misread the OP's account, but it certainly sounds like he's already been on the sharp end and scared shitless. Ice climbing is a lot closer to soloing than most new climbers realize. If you're spooked up there on lead, something is probably wrong. |