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Fixe Alien (Umbrella failure)

Josh Janes · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jun 2001 · Points: 9,954

Of course a broken trigger wire on an Alien that inverts is repairable. A broken cam stop is not.

I always err on the side of getting a tiny cam stuck rather than it inverting: When the pro gets tiny, I'd rather have a slightly bigger, slightly stronger cam that's tough to remove save my ass than a smaller cam invert and pull out of the placement.

I must be a total cult follower because I actually like that they look like they were made in a garage.

Tradiban · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2004 · Points: 11,610
slim wrote: how would the cam not have failed? if it walked into an open position, falling on it would invert the lobes and it would slice out - whether it be a tcu, alien, etc.
If it was a .3C4 or bigger with a duel axel, it would have held. It it had camstops it would have had at least the chance to hold. Aliens have neither of these features.

You can replace the wires on an Alien but you can't replace your ass. When the camstop breaks on a Metolius then you have yourself an Alien.
Tradiban · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2004 · Points: 11,610
caughtinside wrote: That's some impressive baseless speculation. Sounds to me like a sub par placement busted the cam. Stops or a different brand doesn't mean it would have held, (or even fit!) it still could have skated. If you're relying on cam stops to catch you you're dreaming, and you've already f'd up.
You are right, but the chance to hold is a whole lot better than no chance. I think the fact that these other cams have at least tried to accommodate these problems shows their superiority.
slim · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2004 · Points: 1,103

i wouldn't really classify .3 and .4 camalots as micro, kind of talking about apples and lawn furniture here......

Karsten Duncan · · Sacramento, CA · Joined Jan 2006 · Points: 2,571
caughtinside wrote: Those other designs have improved small cam options but they are still not as good as aliens. C4s, still too wide sometimes. C3s, basically an overpriced TCU. No stem flexibility in the direction you want it. Mastercams probably the closest but have the lower range metolius cam angle, a poor trigger design and the harder lobes. Still would probably be my top pick as an alien alternative. That new X4 looks cool, but honestly the stuff I was using 10 years ago, camalots and aliens has stood the test of time and new designs. Clyde Soles told me on here years ago that 'everythign you think you know about cams is about to change.' Well, I tried the Links, the Max and the Supercams, and they basically all suck compared to older cam designs. Even Dragons got worse than the thing they copied. So while I'm sure the X4 will be a fine cam, at this point I am doubtful it will be a significant improvement, or maybe even a slight improvement, on the current state of the cam art.
+1

I primarily use the Metolious Masters now as they are sturdier and work for most free climbing routes but for aid and those tough placements I got to the aliens. They just stick in there like nothing else.
bearbreeder · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2009 · Points: 3,065

dragons are "better" than the C4s IMO for the stuff i use anyways ... as to small cams ... its about what fits and yr preference

if you look at what the best use, theyll use whatever fits and whatever the can get their hands on ... i personally find it utterly amazing that some people say somethings dont work when clearly another climber is using em in the same place

csproul · · Pittsboro...sort of, NC · Joined Dec 2009 · Points: 330
bearbreeder wrote:dragons are "better" than the C4s IMO for the stuff i use anyways ... as to small cams ... its about what fits and yr preference if you look at what the best use, theyll use whatever fits and whatever the can get their hands on ... i personally find it utterly amazing that some people say somethings dont work when clearly another climber is using em in the same place
Ya, well, there are plenty of people who can climb right through my projects (or even solo them!) and not stop to place gear too. That doesn't mean that some gear won't place better than others in those spots where I need to stop.

It is especially true that some gear is better than others when aiding. There's a world of difference between getting a bomber piece of gear in and quickly moving up or hanging out for half an hour trying to get in a piece that doesn't quite fit. Aiding on flaring pin scars with offset Aliens or without is a perfect example of this.
bearbreeder · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2009 · Points: 3,065
csproul wrote: Ya, well, there are plenty of people who can climb right through my projects (or even solo them!) and not stop to place gear too. That doesn't mean that some gear won't place better than others in those spots where I need to stop. It is especially true that some gear is better than others when aiding. There's a world of difference between getting a bomber piece of gear in and quickly moving up or hanging out for half an hour trying to get in a piece that doesn't quite fit. Aiding on flaring pin scars with offset Aliens or without is a perfect example of this.
im not saying that small gear doesnt make a difference ... hell i even plug in a tricam on certain routes ...

but ask yourself if this is a route where you MUST have aliens/TCUs/C4s, etc ... and that without it anyone who does it is "unsafe" ... more often than not someone who aint a sponsored climber has probably done the route just fine without that particular piece of gear

one thing i will say is that offset nuts are da bomb ... but plenty of my partners seem to get by without em

it all depends what youre doing
Tradiban · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2004 · Points: 11,610
slim wrote:i wouldn't really classify .3 and .4 camalots as micro, kind of talking about apples and lawn furniture here......
I believe the cam in question is a yellow alien, just a hair smaller than a .3, agreed neither are micro.

To get small grab some C3s, no cam stop breaking issues that I'm aware of. I've whipped pretty good on the purple, second to smallest.
Eric Krantz · · Black Hills · Joined Feb 2004 · Points: 420

Place the cam correctly and you won't need the "safeguard" of the camstop, which will shear off because it's only a safeguard in your mind. It's not engineered to hold a fall. It's engineered to stop the springs from springing the cams open too far and while you're dinking it into place. The why the multiple shearing failures of the camstops haven't made front page news like the alien failures.

Tradiban · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2004 · Points: 11,610

Where did you get your information from? You think you can front when revelation comes?

Gunkiemike · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2009 · Points: 3,492
S.P.L.T. Image wrote: You think you can front when revalation comes?
WTF?
Ray Pinpillage · · West Egg · Joined Jul 2010 · Points: 180

Now would be an ideal time to discuss micro cracks.

patto · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2012 · Points: 25

This is quite entertaining really. SPLT. Can you name ANY micro cams that have rated cam stops that will hold a fall?

S.P.L.T. Image wrote: When the camstop breaks on a Metolius then you have yourself an Alien.
LOL! No then you have a broken cam.

Personally I'm not a fan of Aliens. I like my zeros (cause nothing else goes that small) and master cams. But the criticism here is totally unwarranted.
rogerbenton · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Sep 2011 · Points: 210
Gunkiemike wrote: WTF?
beastie boys lyric.
skiclimber · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2006 · Points: 30

My Aliens caught on fire, has this happened to anyone else. I was just climbing along and all my aliens caught fire at the same time. I think it was spontaneous combustion.

Tradiban · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2004 · Points: 11,610
patto wrote:This is quite entertaining really. SPLT. Can you name ANY micro cams that have rated cam stops that will hold a fall? LOL! No then you have a broken cam. Personally I'm not a fan of Aliens. I like my zeros (cause nothing else goes that small) and master cams. But the criticism here is totally unwarranted.
Cams are rated as a cam not as specific parts, ie camstops aren't rated, except maybe in the case of Camalots or Dragons with duel axls, which I believe BD rates at full strength. What I'm saying is that in the case of the likely placement in the OP a cam stop will be stronger than the trigger wires. It would certainly be interesting to see a study where all cams are placed passively in the open position and then strength tested. I'm sure Aliens would fail this test miserably.

It would be ideal to simply place the cam correctly with the size applicable to the crack but sometimes it's all that's left on the rack so I would opt for cams that won't umbrella, not to mention cast $20 less ;)

I can see how the argument could be made in the case of micro cams (Met #0 and smaller) that camstops might be useless for holding a fall, they are just too small but most certainly in the case of the OP a C4 could have been used and would have been much less likely (or not at all) to umbrella.
Forthright · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2011 · Points: 110
skiclimber wrote:My Aliens caught on fire, has this happened to anyone else. I was just climbing along and all my aliens caught fire at the same time. I think it was spontaneous combustion.
Nah but I've had the whole thing just melt.
Ray Pinpillage · · West Egg · Joined Jul 2010 · Points: 180

Umbrella ella ella aye aye aye

John Husky · · Unknown Hometown · Joined May 2011 · Points: 5

Machete don't text.

Hexes don't umbrella.

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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