Eldo - Genesis - Fixed Rope

In the Gunks, this argument would be WAY better.

Greg Miller wrote:they probably have an idea of why its there, and have better things to do..

The latter being the biggest factor... same reason why I'm not doing it. Care-o-meter close to 0. I can leave it and go climb something fun instead. It only bothers me when people tell me I aught to appreciate it.

Austin Baird wrote:In the Gunks, this argument would be WAY better.

Is there climbing in Jersey? If so, imagine it there.

Tony B wrote: In my opinion the wisest most mature response, would have been: "Sorry, I didn't realize that some people would have that reaction. I'm hoping you'll realize that it is a valuable project for me and not intended to be a permanent installation." I am putting a lot of effort into that project and should finish soon, and I promise that the moment the project is down, I will remove the rope immediately. Thanks for understanding."

That response would have required more than acting like an arrogant child, Tony.

Many don't like ropes left hanging around, dangling in the way, or just hanging like tat off your futuristic prodges that will explode our pathetically small minds. I've personally taken the effort to strip such eyesores and I don't leave your trash neatly piled at the base for you to repeat offend. Although, I now may leave a small section in the future so the offender can then hang himself with it ;).

Austin Baird wrote:In the Gunks, this argument would be WAY better.

In the gunks it would be on a 5.6

Well, it's pretty much irrelevant now:
The rope was taken down, apparently

Who could have predicted that when the person who left it there said "just don't look at it" that this would be the response?

Tony B wrote:Well, it's pretty much irrelevant now: The rope was taken down, apparently Who could have predicted that when the person who left it there said "just don't look at it" that this would be the response?

Stealing the rope is still a little harsh though? It was obviously someone from this thread, and it was obvious it wasn't abandoned.

NickinCO wrote: Stealing the rope is still a little harsh though? It was obviously someone from this thread, and it was obvious it wasn't abandoned.

Yeah, I think taking it was harsh if that is what happened. But I don't think the initial "obvious" is necessarily true, let alone obvious.
But I don't imagine it was taken this AM. I'm presuming it is/was raining in Eldo as it is in Erie.
So if it was taken down yesterday, that was in real time. It rained in the afternoon at some point, but was clear from at least 5-7 or so. I'd suggest that in a tight window, it must have been someone fairly local taking it down. But I digress...

But I do think that this thread shows that there are a number of people who didn't like it there. So it could have been a non-participant in this discussion. I'm not under the illusion that everyone is on MP.com, nor that all of those folks were following this thread. I'm not so sure that it was someone involved or that necessarily knew the story. I'd say at least ask the rangers if they know anything about it. Someone once turned my car keys in at the booth, but they were not listed on MP.com.

My initial reply was shortsighted. This whole thing has served to highlight an ethical point...end of story. I mean who really cares if it was raining when some jugged my line.? etc.....

Tony B wrote:Hi Joe. I've stayed out of this until now. Working a route I could only dream of? You mean a rehearsed headpoint? Yawn... No matter the grade. It's been done if it isn't 5.15. That is your values and perhaps his. And other people may or may not be impressed. If you expect them to value your goals, perhaps you should acknowledge that theirs are different. Different strokes for different folks.

A "rehearsed headpoint" wasn't what he was after; he was going to equip a new route according to the procedure of the review committee.

Oh SNAP! Boulder on boulder HATE... AWESOME. Must be nice to worry about such insignificant crap! Who cares if his line was dangling? Thus a panty bunch validates theivery! Only in the boulder bubble. EDJ... sorry you got jacked! I have seen lines hanging in CCC for months and nobody gave two craps.

The real asshole here is the one who went out of their way to take the rope.

Wow, let me get this straight.... a few Internet people complained about EDJ's fixed rope, he went running up there to get it the next day and someone had STOLEN it?!?! They could have at least left it at the base or turned it in to the park.

I realize that some folks here are really concerned with the "rules", but it's pretty obvious that he intended to get the rope back. Those "rules" also apply to fixed draws, pitons, bolts, and rap slings. Since when did climbers become so fixated on rules?

I was working an established route. There is another route I am involved in under review elsewhere in canyon. The point is well taken, fixed lines are not ethically(against the rules)a good practice. Now can we all move on. But I would like my gear back.

Randy W. wrote:Oh SNAP! Boulder on boulder HATE... AWESOME. Must be nice to worry about such insignificant crap! Who cares if his line was dangling? Thus a panty bunch validates theivery! Only in the boulder bubble. EDJ... sorry you got jacked! I have seen lines hanging in CCC for months and nobody gave two craps.

And in comes Randy at the first irrelevant opportunity to smash on Boulder once again. Man you must have really got your butt hurt here to despise this town so much. It's just a place on the map man...it didn't do anything to you.

Anyways...besides the ethical debate on this rope, hung draws, stashed bags etc...stealing is LAMESAUCE.

Hopefully someone will return it to you.

Seriously, this is so silly. You all are debating minutely varying levels of environmental impact and aesthetics.

I hate to break it to you, but your little "niche" sport isn't a niche anymore. There is severe and irreparable environmental damage occurring anywhere thousands of people want to climb rocks. Hillsides are being washed away from erosion, pin scars and chipped holds still mar cliffs, waste and excrement pollute fragile alpine environments, the vehicles we use to get to climbs poison the air, etc.

Why not put this much energy into volunteering with Access Fund or your local crag association to try and mitigate the more serious and detrimental impacts to our "beloved" climbing areas instead of bickering about a single fucking rope?! Wake.the.fuck.up.

The bickering/ethics debate was brought on by a few anonymous Internet people.

The larger issue is that this guy's rope was stolen.

Ethics aside, are people really THAT surprised that a rope went missing? With the average price of ropes nearing $200 these days, that's not an insignificant booty for a thief. I've had FAR less expensive things ganked from me before. Hell, I had a dying plant stolen from my porch once.

We'd like to think that all climbers are honest, and I'd say most are. But it only takes one to steal a rope (and they don't even have to be a climber), so it's your call if you want to take that chance.

I do hope you get your rope back though, EDJ.

Eldo is notorious for things getting stolen that are obviously not abandoned, like packs at the base of routes in the middle of the day for instance. Theives of opportunity and dedication peruse Eldo I'm sure on a daily basis. You simply are taking a chance leaving anything overnight there. Period. Ethics be darned all to heck.

El Duderado wrote:The larger issue is that this guy's rope was stolen.

That really is the payoff to this whole fiasco, the punchline if you will.

Tony T. wrote: Why not put this much energy into volunteering with Access Fund or your local crag association to try and mitigate the more serious and detrimental impacts to our "beloved" climbing areas instead of bickering about a single fucking rope?! Wake.the.fuck.up.

Hi Tony T,
What if I give a solid 4 figures to the Access Fund every year, organize trail days and do clean-ups several times a year (and worked at them) and am a board member of an LCO? Then would I be allowed to bicker about a rope?
Have you also done all of the above? If not, why are you speaking here?

Maybe the point is that some people ARE worried about access. I'm not particularly concerned in this particular case, but I speak only for myself. When climbers do something extra-legal and the park has to hear about it or deal with it, it is a strike against the whole community.

Also, if someone "here" has the rope, they should man-up and give EDJ it back in a face-to-face. It would be good for all involved. I think he gets it about thumbing his nose at a crowd and turning his back and would like to have the rope back now.