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"Swedish/clove hitch" bowline knot?

Original Post
Abram Herman · · Grand Junction, CO · Joined May 2009 · Points: 20

In the comments thread on the recent R&I "ban the bowline" article, someone mentioned using a swedish/clove hitch bowline knot, which is apparently a variation of the standard bowline. I haven't been able to find anything on it on MP, or the internet as a whole; I was wondering if anyone has more info or a link on how to tie this variation of the bowline?

(and please don't turn this into another bowline vs. figure 8 "YER ALL GUNNA DIE" argument thread...)

Gregger Man · · Broomfield, CO · Joined Aug 2004 · Points: 1,759

The 'Swedish' or 'Cowboy' Bowline is an accidental reversal of how the rabbit runs around the tree. Slips easily, looks almost identical.
When the rabbit dives back down the hole, he'd better dive on the side of the tree with the crisscross.
wikipedia

ROC · · Denver, CO · Joined Feb 2003 · Points: 155

I've heard of one variation of the bowline being better than the other. Does anyone have direct experience with the knot actually slipping in either configuration? Any links to some actual testing? Is this indeed a safety issue or an issue with following a "tradition" of how a knot is tied?

Craig Childre · · Lubbock, TX · Joined Aug 2006 · Points: 4,860

Well, I never knew that either variation would slip more than the other? The single bowline, I won't use, and never teach as I would consider it unsafe. I do use the double bowline almost exclusively, including the appropriate barrel backup. I've never had a problem with it getting loose even on long multi-pitch. In the multi-pitch situation I do check it from time to time as a precaution. IMHO, you should know how to tie and inspect both, and always check your partners knot.

John D · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Nov 2010 · Points: 10

When you say double bowline, do you mean the bowline with two wraps for the hole instead of one? or do you mean the bowline on a bight? I use both, and the single bowline too (though not to tie in) but I'm wondering how much more secure a double bowline really is.

tenpins · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jan 2007 · Points: 30

my understanding is that the double part of the bowline is about making it somewhat stronger. seemed the load distribution on the knot was less focused, and we could still easily untie it after putting a rescue/litter load on it. Never had any of the wanna be knot geeks on my team mention it being "more secure"/less likely to come loose.

John Husky · · Unknown Hometown · Joined May 2011 · Points: 5

Actually the double bowline on a bight clove hitch swedish shit show is tied exactly the same way as a rewoven figure 8. What I like about it is that it is easy to tie, easy to check and is as unquestionably bombproof as a normal trace 8.

Dan Felix · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Aug 2012 · Points: 35
Gregger Man wrote:The 'Swedish' or 'Cowboy' Bowline is an accidental reversal of how the rabbit runs around the tree. Slips easily, looks almost identical. When the rabbit dives back down the hole, he'd better dive on the side of the tree with the crisscross. wikipedia
I'm fairly certain that the Smith-Padgett book, "On Rope" clearly states that there really is no difference in strength between the 2 ways to tie the bowline. With the tail on the outside of the loop though, it is more likely to snag and thus the reason for the preference to tie it with the tail on the inside of the loop.
Guy Kenny Jr · · Boulder, CO · Joined Nov 2008 · Points: 10

So if you tie the cowboy version, how do you back it up? I run a double loop then run the the regular way and back it up with a double fishermans.

Prod.

Abram Herman · · Grand Junction, CO · Joined May 2009 · Points: 20

I ended up getting a response on the original comment thread from the R&I article--the swedish/clove hitch bowline is also known as a water bowline, which yields lots of search results. Looks pretty handy! Check it out here

Gregger Man · · Broomfield, CO · Joined Aug 2004 · Points: 1,759

Cool.
I guess was wrong about Swedish=Cowboy.

Patzl · · Inverness · Joined Aug 2012 · Points: 0
tenpins wrote:my understanding is that the double part of the bowline is about making it somewhat stronger. seemed the load distribution on the knot was less focused, and we could still easily untie it after putting a rescue/litter load on it. Never had any of the wanna be knot geeks on my team mention it being "more secure"/less likely to come loose.
The double part of the knot doesnt make it stronger it is to stop it slipping from a multi directional loading, ive havent experienced the knot slipping just comeing undone mid climb.
Buff Johnson · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2005 · Points: 1,145

I just wanna use the word 'eskimo' or hot naked half-hitched eskimo

cdec · · SLC, UT · Joined Jan 2007 · Points: 654

I gotta throw this one into the mix just cause I Want to type it.
How about the "Brolin" a reverse retraced overhand. It's a EDN you can tie in with.

Mark E Dixon · · Possunt, nec posse videntur · Joined Nov 2007 · Points: 974
cdec wrote:I gotta throw this one into the mix just cause I Want to type it. How about the "Brolin" a reverse retraced overhand. It's a EDN you can tie in with.
This sounds like the 'brotherhood knot' which I use all the time now. Doesn't untie itself, but if dressed neatly, is easy to untie despite multiple whippers.

I couldn't find 'Brolin knot' in a quick google search, but admit I didn't try as hard as I
could have.
cdec · · SLC, UT · Joined Jan 2007 · Points: 654

Indeed aka the brotherhood knot.

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

General Climbing
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