Rebuilding winter layering system. suggestions?
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Im working on rebuilding my winter layering system. I have base layers and just purchased a Patagonia Nano Puff. Any suggestions on WATERPROOF outer layers would be appreciated. |
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I'm loving the Neoshell fabric, buy something with that |
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lovin some dryQ, looking forward to my second season of using it, def worth checking out, they have many different levels in different price ranges as well. i wear jacket and pants, |
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The foundation of any great layering system starts with a patagucci R-1. In my opinion it's a must. Then I have a WM flash puffy and an Arcteryx atom sv for cold days. Then a shell I use the beta AR and alpha sv. Bottom line base layer, puffy, and shell. |
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Thanks for the input! |
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I really like Rab gear. I have a Latok Alpine shell (the ultralight version of their Latok shell). It's eVent, so it breathes amazingly, and in spite of being the lightweight version, it's held up great to 3 years of skiing/snowboarding in the winter and being my rain shell in the summer. And at $200, it was cheaper by a long shot than anything equivalent offered by the competition. |
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check out the outdoor research axiom. amazing shell! outdoorresearch.com/en/or-g… |
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is this a "just in case" wpb shell ... in other words do you use a softshell for most conditions ... if it is consider something very light such as the OR helium, 6 oz ... its my go everywhere rarely used jacket ... |
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stretchy synthetics under softshells when i'm moving and synthetic puffy stuff for when i'm not. |
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New England go anywhere layer system. |
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Grid fleece (e.g. Patagonia R1) is a solid base or mid layer. NWAlpine's Spider Light Hoody is lighter weight, if you run warm. In even colder temperatures, the Atom LT is an exceptional midlayer as well. |
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"I think a better question to ask is why are you set on using a hardshell all the time?" |
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Hardshells blow, the coldest and wettest I've ever been was with a hardshell on. Bearbreeders advice is right on, I have a lightweight shell that sits in the bottom of my pack for emergencies, I try to never wear it. |
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Don't listen to Westerners poo-pooing on hard shells. I hated soft shells when climbing in New England - they are too hot when climbing and then they get wet and you're walking around in a frozen armor. It's always wet and running even if it's minus 40 outside in New England! People out west don't understand that you have to get out when it's full-on blowing snow and usually overcast to take advantage of the conditions. You don't have to get an expensive Gore-Tex, look into eVent fabric. Check the Wild Things outlet in North Conway, they usually have some good steals. I have a Rab Momentum shell which I'm not 100% happy with (hate where the pockets are, sticky zippers and an unflattering cut), but I found a good deal on it and it keeps me dry and warm. |
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Could anybody please explain to me the waterproof rating system? I see a lot of jackets with a rating of 20,000mm or 25PSI, for example. I would assume it's as simple as the higher the number, the more waterproof it is? But what does it actually mean? and the "breathability rating"? |
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TDoyle wrote:Could anybody please explain to me the waterproof rating system? I see a lot of jackets with a rating of 20,000mm or 25PSI, for example. I would assume it's as simple as the higher the number, the more waterproof it is? But what does it actually mean? and the "breathability rating"? Thanks! -Timignore it all ... as long as its a reputable fabric from a reputable manufacturer youll be fine ... event, goretex, etc are "waterproof" ... neoshell is considered "effectively waterproof" ... everyone measures breathability numbers differently for marketing purposes ... its all hocus pocus to confuse you not to say that some jackets arent more "breathable" than others ... but note in the recent backpackinglight.com comparison a <100$ jacket (on sale) house branded from backcountry.com was found to outperform a lof of $$$$$ jackets with $$$$$ fabrics ... they used humidity monitors on a real world hike to test heres the best resource if you want to understand it ... rei.com/learn/expert-advice… to understand how much is just marketing go here ... outsideonline.com/outdoor-g… more important than all the fancy meaningless marketing department generated "facts" is an absolutely utter and stellar warranty with no questions asked ... because no matter how many dead birds or patagucci stickers you put in the jacket, rain jacket failure and delamination can happen ... companies like OR, EB, REI, etc ... all stand 100% behind their products no matter when, where it was bought or how it was used or abused |
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TDoyle wrote:Could anybody please explain to me the waterproof rating system? I see a lot of jackets with a rating of 20,000mm or 25PSI, for example. I would assume it's as simple as the higher the number, the more waterproof it is? But what does it actually mean? and the "breathability rating"? Thanks! -TimThe waterproof rating is a measure of just "how waterproof" a jacket is. A jacket of a rating of 20,000mm means the fabric starts to let in water (the test is two or three droplets) when a water column of 20,000mm is applied to its top. In reality, none of us are using our waterproof garments that way - rain is a dynamic, rather than static, force. In the UK, I think the standard for "waterproof" is about 1,000mm of pressure. Google hydrostatic head testing for much more information. The breathability rating is much more simple to understand. In 24 hours, a square meter of fabric allows x amount of water vapor to pass through it. Replace x with the tested amount. You might guess that if a fabric is not very waterproof, it would be incredibly breathable. So a jacket like a Sierra Designs Hurricane has a hydrostatic head rating of 5,000mm, but a breathability rating of just 5,000g/m2. Compare that to a Gore-Tex shell, which may have numbers of 28,000mm hydrostatic head, and breathability in excess of 20,000g/m2. Different waterproofing technologies bring different results; Gore-Tex operates differently than a PU coating which operates differently than eVent which is different from NeoShell because they are fundamentally different. |
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If you need to walk around town in the rain, you need a plain old rain jacket. If you're not sweating, anything waterproof will keep you dry. |
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Check out the new Neoshell jacket from TNF - it's called the Jammu. |
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Steady down-poors and I'm going home. Unexpected rain and I pull out my super inexpensive and lightweight RAB waterproof shell (8oz). Otherwise I wear a softshell, I don't care how wet the snow is. Also, all that fancy breathability crap is worthless when your jacket is wet outside. I've had namebrand $400+ hardshells that soaked water into the face fabric making them a high dollar trash bag. I've been marginally wet in a softshell and got dry faster than my partners wearing hardshells. |
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Really interesting thread--everyone has their own methods. |