??Wolf's Head Accident - Aug. 18/19??

Crag Dweller wrote: You've got enough rope to anchor one end. That's all it takes to rope solo. Simul-climbing does nothing other than putting two at risk instead of one.

+1

brenta wrote: I guess the argument made by the author of that article is that in such a predicament you want a better safeguard from cross-loading than a single locker would provide. The case for two separate attachments is that when you move one up, the other still connects you to the rope.

I had not considered the added cross-loading safeguard.

You've got enough rope to anchor one end. That's all it takes to rope solo. Simul-climbing does nothing other than putting two at risk instead of one. </quo
What if u never rope soloed on lead? Its getting late and u r exhausted. Simulation climbing is more practical in that case.

BigJuggsjohnson wrote: What if u never rope soloed on lead? Its getting late and u r exhausted. Simulation climbing is more practical in that case.

So, rather than leaving one exhausted climber safely anchored at the rap station, you'd recommend that two exhausted climbers simul-climb on a short length of rope? Brilliant!

If one of the two climbers doesn't know how to jug a rope using prusiks and back that up with a clove hitch, you shouldn't be there in the first place and simul-climbing for those two climbers in that scenario most definitely is not a good idea.

So apparently there was something to be learned from this.

The thing that I want to hear from Bike Nut will be whats more of an ordeal prussicing up a pair of ropes, once he's done it, or being reamed by the MP.com community.

Climbed the Wolf's Head back on 04 had the route to ourselves. We did the single rope and walk off route down. Had a great time didn't really learn anything tho.

I had learned many years earlier, while climbing in the Valley, sometimes it pays to stop at those intermediate anchors. There not always just for people doing single rope raps.

wow...this is about the most valid thread MP has seen in a while!!

Nice work!

BigJuggsjohnson wrote:What if u never rope soloed on lead? Its getting late and u r exhausted. Simulation climbing is more practical in that case.

Simulclimbing introduces a significant risk that is unnecessary. Of course if you don't know the rope soloing technique, you can't be expected to do it when exhausted in a crisis scenario. But the point is that it's the safest way out of this worst case scenario of stuck ropes (only one strand, not enough free rope to lead up properly). So alpine climbers should study it and practice it.

To echo brenta's comment, these worst case scenario stuck rope situations are rare. You have both strands in hand before you start pulling... if you can pull any rope through at all, you're likely to get a significant amount before the other end sticks. So then you can lead properly with what you have.

Regarding Brett's worst case scenario and the use of a GRI GRI (or a locking plate/tube for that matter) to either ascend the rope or as a backup if the stuck rope becomes free, they are not the best tools for the application. Prusik loops and knots are the better choice, mostly because of the simplicity and the fact that they are much less apt to be compromised when the orientation of the rope is reversed (when the struck end pops free).

There are two other things I would do differently when faced with this situation. Despite the endless banter about the strength of various knots, this is a situation where a little extra caution is warranted. If things go wrong, there is the potential for serious forces being generated. My choice would be to clip in short with a hard knot approximately every body length, as opposed to using a clove hitch. The advantages are a stronger point of connection and you can ascend the rope faster. Keep in mind that if the two prusiks are both attached to the harness, the clove or hard knot is unlikely to be loaded; so I would trade speed/efficiency for a marginal improvement in safety. Clipping in short is commonly taught as the backup for crevasse self rescue.

The other thing I would not do is have my partner belay off their harness or fix the rope to the anchor. If the person ascending the line cannot get gear in and the stuck end becomes free, the result will be a factor 2 fall; not something I want my belayer to have to deal with or get caught up in. The better choice would be to have the belayer belay directly off the anchor. This assumes the belayer is reasonably skilled and, ideally, the technique has been practiced in a less stressful situation. Here is information regarding that technique- vimeo.com/44869774 Certainly belaying directly off bolts is the ideal, but in a life and death situation with few other options or resources, you do what you have to do.

Hoping none of you ever have to employ any of these techniques.

There are many ways to get out of this predicament: rope solo on atc or simul-climb (the latter would be my choice having no experience rope solo leading) I would be comfortable to simul-climb 5.6 which in this case was the grade, but the op may not be. Obviously the party did not have enough rope management, multi pitch/alpine experience. A lot of times people see a grade 5.6 to 5.7 and think that sport leading it or confident cragging will get u up 10 pitch route with 2 hr approach....not so...its a reality check. Its a good idea to consider the commitment factor, leave earier than u think you should and start with routes that can be done in 3 pitches then work your way up to higher volume routes. Consider the physical ability and endurance of both partners. Pulling a 20 hr day and maintaining your sanity is no joke. You gotto start somewhere so don't get discouraged, no pride here cos the mountains dont care. Keep chipping at it!

+1 x a million JLP

Glad everybody made it safely down. Hope that a self rescue course is in this guys future.

Belaying with 2 lockers.

Without proper training this happens a lot! Not just in Cliffhanger!

Same thing happened to me when I was 13 years old, climbing with another young teen, and five pitches up. Still managed to get off the climb without a rescue. Never even thought about one. I wasn't scared to jug a stuck rope because I only weighed 90 pounds and didn't really understand the predicament. Now I would rope solo because I am a big fat scared mess.

Brenta's comment is really being overlooked. 99% of the time you will have enough rope to lead on one end while simultaneously ascending the stuck side. Remember, if your rope is stuck fifty feet up then you pulled fifty feet of rope, if your rope is stuck eighty feet up than you have pulled eighty feet of rope (99% of the time). If lead climbing is possible, it may be faster than ascending. If you must ascend continue to be belayed while placing gear on the free end. Simul climb as a last resort only if you have run out of rope and the leader was able to place plenty of gear. simul falls are very dangerous for the leader.

I did get to practice this on the petit many years ago with storm brewing. Four of us hanging on the rope could not free it. After ascending and leading I found the rope wasn't stuck on anything. The wind got a hold of it and wrapped it around itself twenty times. Scary!

For more rappelling stories, check out this thread. It goes from the first request for beta on rapping El Cap, to the actual day, the SAR incident, and then the trip report all the way down to some hilarious audio ranting follow up. It's a slog, so skip to the chase if you like around page 12.

supertopo.com/climbers-foru…

I am not understanding the simul-climbing recommendation. Please explain how you think that would work and why putting both members of the party at risk is a good idea.

PRRose wrote:I am not understanding the simul-climbing recommendation. Please explain how you think that would work and why putting both members of the party at risk is a good idea.

OK like climbing multipitch route as it is not putting both parties at some degree of risk? Like climbing 20 ft 5.6 grade placing frequently and not taking a whipper on your smallest piece is too much to bear?

Eric and Lucie wrote:Geez people, if everybody starts calling SAR every time they get a rope stuck, we're in for trouble. Just this weekend, we were on the Diamond and a team ended up finishing their route well after dark. They exited upper Kiener's to the summit. I am sure they were cold and all, and worried about descending the NF in the dark, but what did they do? Answer: they triggered a satellite rescue beacon..!!! Then immediately proceeded to descend the NF after all and spend the night back at their bivy near Chasm View! Next morning (we were camped at the Boulderfield) we ran into two climbing rangers frantically looking for the party in trouble that had triggered a beacon the night before... I sure hope this is not a trend (though I am afraid it is). In my world, when you go climbing, you take responsibility for your own actions and don't call for rescue until (1) you have exhausted every possible option to get out of your predicament, (2) someone's health or life is seriously at risk, and (3) calling a rescue is likely to make a difference to #2. Seriously, what could they have expected from triggering a search in the middle of the night at the summit of Long's? If their lives were in danger, the rescue party would simply have found bodies the next morning. If they were not in danger, then they could have waited for daylight and descended the normal way the next morning.

You said it, Eric. And we climbers get all defensive when the "general public" starts crying about how their tax dollars shouldn't be spent for rescues like this. If this "yuppie 911" trend keeps up, I won't be able to disagree with the general public anymore.

BigJuggsjohnson wrote: OK like climbing multipitch route as it is not putting both parties at some degree of risk? Like climbing 20 ft 5.6 grade placing frequently and not taking a whipper on your smallest piece is too much to bear?

That is a non-answer. Simul-climbing is much more dangerous than belayed climbing. Do you understand that?

I want to hear more about this incident...mostly because I am a freak who likes vicariously living through trainwrecks... but really I'd like to know exactly what happened. All I could find was a police blotter from the county that said the climber called his sister for help.

"Fremont County’s Disptach Center received a call for assistance from the sister of one of two climbers on Wolf’s Head Peak in the Wind River Range whose rope apparently became stuck and the pair were stranded on a ledge. The climbers had a cell phone and had called the sister for assistance. The location of the incident was in Sublette County and officials there handled the call and the pair was rescued at 4 p.m. Monday."

county10.com/2012/08/21/pol…