??Wolf's Head Accident - Aug. 18/19??

@Brett - Are we assuming that the climbers are at the end of the ropes w/ nominal meters at their feet from the pull line? Or are we assuming that they still have a workable amount of rope at their feet?

Brett Sherman wrote:My question is this; if you DID have a Gri-Gri, would you ascend with it as you would a regular fixed line, OR would you have to feed the rope into the Gri-gri backwards because of how it would be loaded when the anchor up top pops out and you fall?

Picturing that particular scenario in my head, I don't think that a Grigri is a good device to use. I can't imagine there's a way to get the Grigri to lock up if the snag freed while you were ascending the stuck rope. But maybe there's something that I'm not considering.

Greg,

I am assuming there is not enough rope to use for leading up. It is the same scenario in Tom's link; One end of the rope is snagged up high, its unknown how secure it is. Therefore, assuming there is no rescue option, you will need to anchor the part of the rope you have access to or have your partner put you "on belay", and you have to ascend the sketchy line placing pro as you go (sort of like rope soloing). All of this is makes sense to me...

my question is about HOW you ascend the line. The article in Tom's post recomends prusiks to jug and moving a clove hitch on two caribeaners to catch the potential fall. It also mentions that if you had a Gri-gri, this would be "easier but more dangerous". I was wondering if you did have a Gri-gri, would you need to feed the rope in backwards so that when/if the rope becomes unsnagged, thus you falling, the gri-gri would be weighted better. Confusing, i know. Picture how the Gri-gri would be weighted if the snag at the TOP of the rope came undone.

I might not be explaining myself clearly. Sorry if not.

-Brett

Maybe the answer is like Marc says, the Gri-gri is not a good device for this scenario.

-Brett

My answer: take the part of rope u pulled down and simultaneous climb with your partner using pro up till u see the stuck end of rope. Then build a station leave your partner there grab the other end of rope. Assess the situation if there's a need to reset the station and what is the cause for snagging. Ascend the rope with a prussic if needed to the station to reset it. Carefully look at the angles and cracks where the rap line will be running.

• "Bikenut

Totally regretting being part of the "climbing community" and all the trash talking "hard core climbers" sitting at Starbucks on their laptop analyzing a situation they know nothing about."

sorry if i hurt your feelings braugh. it is just my opinion that
you should not call a chopper for that. tough/wait it out until
morning to figure out what to do in the daylight. i know it is
scary, i had to do it on fitzroy. oh yeah, ropes were stuck too.

BigJuggs,

Very interesting idea! Scary as shit, hopefully you would have enough rope between the two of you to place a NUMBER of pieces while simulling, but smart!

-Brett

Why on earth would you simul-climb, putting both people at risk of a potential fall?!

The main thing in a situation with a stuck rope is to keep a cool head and both work to help each other think things through. More climbing is better, keep practicing situations like that with your partner the better and more clear headed u become. Its hard when you are tired. Pick a person who will go for the rope and make sure their lockers are locked, their system is safe, keep yourself safe and be ready to give it a shot if your partner is unsuccessful or too tired. This is a team building part of climbing in my opinion.

Crag Dweller wrote:Why on earth would you simul-climb, putting both people at risk of a potential fall?!

U don't have enough rope presumably. If u r a good leader and stitch the route up its totally safe. On harder routes with short piece of rope that's just the risk u will be taking.

Brett Sherman wrote:BigJuggs, Very interesting idea! Scary as shit, hopefully you would have enough rope between the two of you to place a NUMBER of pieces while simulling, but smart! -Brett

Thanx man I've gotten my share of stuck ropes:) I thought this up last time. Since im lighter and stitch up routes I would go for it. No hesitation.

BigJuggsjohnson wrote: U don't have enough rope presumably. If u r a good leader and stitch the route up its totally safe. On harder routes with short piece of rope that's just the risk u will be taking.

You've got enough rope to anchor one end. That's all it takes to rope solo. Simul-climbing does nothing other than putting two at risk instead of one.

"You've got enough rope to anchor one end. That's all it takes to rope solo. Simul-climbing does nothing other than putting two at risk instead of one. "

Thats a good point though.

Which brings me BACK to my original question that has yet to be answered. Gri-gri? or the clove hitch on two lockers? Cool thoughts...

-Brett

Clove hitch on 2 lockers. Keep it simple.

Bike Nut, Glad you're ok.

As rude as we can be here, the mountains can be much more harsh. If the judgement call you made put you all down safely, that's good enough. It sounds like SAR was more than happy to help yall out, and probably wouldn't have done so if they thought you could've handled it yourselves. Kudos for stepping up and informing everyone of what went down.

Cheers

Mick S wrote:Clove hitch on 2 lockers. Keep it simple.

Why 2 lockers? We don't belay off two lockers. What about this situation makes 2 lockers necessary?

Not trying to be a smart ass. I'm genuinely curious as to why someone might think that is necessary.

Brett Sherman wrote:Gri-gri? or the clove hitch on two lockers?

Maybe a GriGri and a clove hitch?

Many climbers have had their ropes stuck on rappel, but how many have had to climb up to an end out of reach without enough rope in hand?

I'd be interested in such stories. I suspect they are not so common. If you are at the bottom of a rappel it means that both ends of the rope reach there from the rappel anchor. Then, if one end of the rope is out of reach, in most cases you will have pulled enough rope to lead up to it. There are exceptions, but they should be rare.

One thing to avoid, when one rappel station is not directly below the previous one, is to let go of the rope(s) before pulling them. If traversing is hard, then it may be very unpleasant.

If memory serves, something similar happened two-three years ago on the Diamond and forced a rescue. (The first climber down became disconnected from the rope.)

If there is a possibility of a long fall, I would want 2 lockers, cross loading would be a big concern.

Crag Dweller wrote: Why 2 lockers? We don't belay off two lockers. What about this situation makes 2 lockers necessary? Not trying to be a smart ass. I'm genuinely curious as to why someone might think that is necessary.

I guess the argument made by the author of that article is that in such a predicament you want a better safeguard from cross-loading than a single locker would provide.

The case for two separate attachments is that when you move one up, the other still connects you to the rope.

Crag Dweller wrote: Why 2 lockers? We don't belay off two lockers. What about this situation makes 2 lockers necessary? Not trying to be a smart ass. I'm genuinely curious as to why someone might think that is necessary.

I have also heard that a munter can unscrew the gate on a locking 'biner as it feeds.