Who uses a grigri to belay trad leaders?

This is an interesting thread.

+1 for using the grigri for trad

While rockfall on the belayer has been mentioned, another serious concern is that NOT A SINGLE slot device will allow you to hold a true factor two fall (e.g. a fall on the belay during multi-pitch). Petzl no longer has the warning against using it for trad.

Am I the only one to think that if your device is seriously slipping, that sketchy in and of itself? All the deep notches and teeth you see on slot devices now seem design to prevent slippage.

If you have a marginal placement, put a screamer on it. Use of screamers makes the difference for aid, where grigri are in standard use.

The pros way out way the cons.

Cheers from Osaka,

john

John Shultz wrote:This is an interesting thread. +1 for using the grigri for trad While rockfall on the belayer has been mentioned, another serious concern is that NOT A SINGLE slot device will allow you to hold a true factor two fall (e.g. a fall on the belay during multi-pitch). Petzl no longer has the warning against using it for trad. Am I the only one to think that if your device is seriously slipping, that sketchy in and of itself? All the deep notches and teeth you see on slot devices now seem design to prevent slippage. If you have a marginal placement, put a screamer on it. Use of screamers makes the difference for aid, where grigri are in standard use. The pros way out way the cons. Cheers from Osaka, john

Hey Jon,

I know of at two factor 2 falls that were caught on ATCs. In both cases the belayer got their hands pretty jacked up, but they caught the falls.

I have also seen cases of gear pulling when a GriGri was used for the belay that might have not pulled when using a tuber. This was impossible to confirm, though.

I think it comes down to using the right tools for the job. Sometimes I am ok with being belayed with a GriGri when I'm on gear. Most of the time I still prefer an ATC.

I was present while a climber took a 100' fall from the belay on the first pitch of the North Chimney of Castleton. His belayer was using a GriGri as four pieces of gear blew, launching him into shallow roof 15' off the deck. The belayers shoulder was separated and he was knocked unconcious as a result of the impact (he was wearing a helmet). The only thing that kept the leader off the deck (he stopped 5ft short of the ground) was his belayer getting jacked into the roof.

Did the GriGri put excessive force on the protection or was it simply just placed improperly, we won't be able to tell. Did the GriGri save both of them from far more serious injury, absolutely.

After this incident I have considered using my GriGri for lead belaying, although in most cases it is impractical and I just make the consideration of ground anchors. Nonetheless as a belayer it is important to consider your safety, think about what will happen in the case of a fall. Where will you end up? Are you prepared to catch a large fall? Should you be wearing a helmet? Is a brake-assist device appropriate etc. I have found that we often let our guard down while belaying as it seems the leader is the one taking the most risk.

I'll post up on this again in hopes that someone can actually lay their hands on some data.

Does the Mammut Smart actually provide a softer catch than the Gri Gri and how does it compare to the ATC?

NC Rock Climber wrote:I'll post up on this again in hopes that someone can actually lay their hands on some data. Does the Mammut Smart actually provide a softer catch than the Gri Gri and how does it compare to the ATC?

There are no tests of the braking characteristics of any of the assisted braking devics like the Smart, the SRC, ClickUp etc and more regrettable no information from the various manufacturers. The only tests on this kind of belay device where on the Camp YoYo (all these plates are fundamentally the same) which was described as hard!

Mammut themselves are somewhat vague on the subject "Because the belayer only needs to apply a small amount of force to lock the rope
completely in the belay device" or conversely "brakes the fall
dynamically, meaning that a small amount of rope slips through the device- gently braking the fall before the rope is finally locked in the device."
Pick whichever you prefer!

I´d guess it was somewhere in the middle of a GriGri and an ATC.

I was bothered by the lack of friction and slippage with my 9.5mm dry rope with my ATC guide and bought a Mammut Smart Alpine, Climbing Technology Alpine Up ( climbingtechnology.it/en-US…), and a metolius BRD( metoliusclimbing.com/brd_be…) to sample what is on the market these days.

The Climbing technology Alpine Up is by far the nicest of the group. Similar to the Smart Alpine but has a mode that resembles a normal tuber allowing the operator to select the type of belay to give. It really feeds rope nicely and locks superbly.

Never do I use a Gri-Gri for trad.......

Too much weight,

Can't rappel..........

Single pitch sport it's great,

But for leaving the ground unless your walking off all the time...

NO.....

Always do I use a Gri-Gri for trad......

Not that much weight,

Can Rappel........

Single Pitch sport it's great,

And for leaving the ground even if you're walking off all the time...

YES....

Gri gri on most single pitch, but don't ever take it on multipitch.

Ps gri gri 2 is way better than original for belaying. Not so much for working/bolting/etc.

John Shultz wrote:This is an interesting thread. +1 for using the grigri for trad While rockfall on the belayer has been mentioned, another serious concern is that NOT A SINGLE slot device will allow you to hold a true factor two fall (e.g. a fall on the belay during multi-pitch). Petzl no longer has the warning against using it for trad. Am I the only one to think that if your device is seriously slipping, that sketchy in and of itself? All the deep notches and teeth you see on slot devices now seem design to prevent slippage. If you have a marginal placement, put a screamer on it. Use of screamers makes the difference for aid, where grigri are in standard use. The pros way out way the cons. Cheers from Osaka, john

I caught a factor 2 on a standard ATC with just some minor rope burn at the base of my thumb. Put some tape on it and kept climbing.

Ryan Williams wrote:Ps gri gri 2 is way better than original for belaying. Not so much for working/bolting/etc.

or if you are left handed the 2 sucks...

I'd never use a grigri to belay in trad climbing....I use a Cinch.. I like skinny ropes, and I bought my cinch before the grigri II. I just like the way it feeds, and lockup.

I'm curious how many of these Gri-Gri using trad climbers also tie into the anchor with a daisy chain ?????

NC Rock Climber wrote:I'll post up on this again in hopes that someone can actually lay their hands on some data. Does the Mammut Smart actually provide a softer catch than the Gri Gri and how does it compare to the ATC?

i have noticed some slip now after using it for a while ... so id say yes from my observation ...

more so on thinner, slicker ropes ...

generationfourth wrote: or if you are left handed the 2 sucks...

I was climnbing yesterday with a girl who belayed w/ a GriGri2 left handed. She didn't seem to have any issues, but I'll ask her about it this week.

I am impressed that people have held factor two-esc fall with a slot device. I think the published Petzl catalogue that stated otherwise considered falls that result in a rope burn, as device failure.

My point is still the same. Slippage is good until its bad.

Mammut smart alpine (the larger size will still handle ropes down to 8.9). Only reason not in universal use yet is climbers are set in their ways.

Ryan Williams wrote: I was climnbing yesterday with a girl who belayed w/ a GriGri2 left handed. She didn't seem to have any issues, but I'll ask her about it this week.

It depends on how she's feeding the rope for clipping. Is she doing it correctly and using Petz'ls recommended way?

If she is it's a lot harder using the other side of the grigri2 for this method. The gri gri 1 handles it a lot better

JMo wrote:Mammut smart alpine (the larger size will still handle ropes down to 8.9). Only reason not in universal use yet is climbers are set in their ways.

I tried the Smart Alpine for handling 8.5mm half ropes and disliked it. The need to have the braking hand on the handle makes dual pay-out take-in operations awkward at the very best, and it totally stinks for rappelling.

The Smart Alpine might be ok for single ropes or twins, since the belay management demands are much simpler, but it is very far from ideal for half ropes.

I'm not remotely set in my ways, I keep looking for and trying alternatives to the Reverso/ATC guide for half-rope belaying, and in my opinion the Smart isn't even close.

Both the Alpine Up and Smart Alpine are assisted locking devices and so in the same category as the Gri-gri when it comes to potentially higher anchor loads. The Alpine Up gives the user the choice of whether to use an assisted locking mode or a regular friction mode, and so is more versatile than the Smart.

The Alpine Up is a far better half-rope belaying device, but it is as heavy as a Gri-gri (so noticeably heavier than the Smart) and costs $100. (But, you'd need two Smarts to cover the rope range of a single Up.)