Moby Grape beta

Moby Grape has been on my list for a while, and I am thinking it might happen this season. In reading some of the gear beta, I see all kinds of mixed messages about what size cams I'll want to double up on. Some folks are saying #2 and #3 camalots, some are saying #3 and #3.5 camalots, some are saying #3 and #3.5 Friends... obviously these are all a bit different.

So... anyone care to clear up this ambiguity? Talking in C4 sizes, am I looking at doubles of #2 and #3? Any need for a #4 C4?

Also... anyone want to recommend any less committing routes that provide a good benchmark for the difficulty of Moby Grape?

Right on sounds like a good goal. I personally carry a standard rack up to a number 4 with no doubles and have been fine every time. However a #1, and #2 could be helpful in most of the situations.

Now that the gear is taken care of, the question is have you been on Cannon? If not skip to # 3). 1) Rope management, gear anchors and route finding are going to be more/just as valuable as the gear. 2) As weird as it may sound I find that a few single laps on various cracks at PWay/Cathedral (5.8-5.9) will put you right where you need to be minus option 1. 3) It has always been said in conversation "This is Cannon..no #$#@#@g around". Dial in the above, climb safe and enjoy this great route. IMO one of NE's top climbs.

Climber57r wrote:Right on sounds like a good goal. I personally carry a standard rack up to a number 4 with no doubles and have been fine every time. However a #1, and #2 could be helpful in most of the situations.

Thanks. This is just the sort of info I was looking for.

Now that the gear is taken care of, the question is have you been on Cannon? If not skip to # 3). 1) Rope management, gear anchors and route finding are going to be more/just as valuable as the gear. 2) As weird as it may sound I find that a few single laps on various cracks at PWay/Cathedral (5.8-5.9) will put you right where you need to be minus option 1. 3) It has always been said in conversation "This is Cannon..no #$#@#@g around". Dial in the above, climb safe and enjoy this great route. IMO one of NE's top climbs.

Thanks for this too. I've been on Cannon a few times - I've done Lakeview once and W-G several times. No ^%@ing around indeed. I have a personal rule that I don't climb at Cannon with new partners. Too much that could go wrong.

If anyone else wants to weigh in, I'm all ears.

How you approach the gear on Moby depends a lot on which pitch you choose to start on. If you climb Reppy's Crack (highly recommended!) to open up the climb, you'll want a little extra in the hand-crack arsenal. I climbed with a single rack to #3 and (I think) an extra #3 C4, and ended up placing that second #3 right after the crux, pretty tipped out, and was forced to run it out for a while on wide hands until nearing the end of the pitch. Definitely bring that #4. As for the original start, a single rack would probably do just fine.

The only extra pieces you need are for Reppy's Crack. Unless you are willing to run it out bring extra #2 (gold) Camalots. I carry three of these and sew up the crack. Don't do the alternate (original) start. It has some chossy rock and the protection isn't nearly as good as Reppy's. Other than that a standard rack is fine. Make sure you have a #3 Camalot for above the pod in Reppy's and for the triangular roof. Best route on Cannon.

Agree that the only doubles you may want are hand size camalots or equivalent. I didn't bring a #4, but I did run it out on Reppy's a tad.

Have fun, Moby Grabe rules!

Rob Rives wrote:How you approach the gear on Moby depends a lot on which pitch you choose to start on. If you climb Reppy's Crack (highly recommended!) to open up the climb, you'll want a little extra in the hand-crack arsenal. I climbed with a single rack to #3 and (I think) an extra #3 C4, and ended up placing that second #3 right after the crux, pretty tipped out, and was forced to run it out for a while on wide hands until nearing the end of the pitch. Definitely bring that #4. As for the original start, a single rack would probably do just fine.

The original start fell off a few years ago. It now makes lovely benches from which to spectate while folks lead Reppy's.

Rack choices depend entirely on how comfortable one is on straight in hand cracks. There are ample opportunities for smaller gear on the first 2/3s of Reppy's, but above the pod is a continuous 20' section of #3 camalot size. This section is low angle and quite easy if comfortable on cupped hands, but if not, 2 #3 camalots are a probably a good idea.

That section aside, there is no reason for more than a single #3, and certainly not for anything bigger. Doubles in fingers through hands (i.e. .5-#2 camalot) are helpful if you want to sew it up and still have lots of gear options for the belays. After the bolted anchor atop Reppy's, all anchors are gear, and some are best built with more than one of a single size. A few smaller units would not go unused if 5.8 is near your limit. A single set of wires is plenty.

A few other suggestions:

After pulling over the triangle roof, most parties continue another 30' or so to the next large ledge. While spacious, anchor options on this ledge require some serious loose rock judgment, and are rather suspect. Instead, consider belaying at the small but comfortable stance just above the triangle roof. There is bomber gear in a solid crack here, and equally important if 5.8 is near your second's limit, you're right there as he/she negotiates the roof. This makes you better positioned to assist as needed. From this stance, you can easily lead through to either of the two ledges below the Finger of Fate, so it doesn't add an additional pitch, but it does significantly increase anchor security and communication.

For the finish, I highly recommend Kurt's Corner. It's more direct and IMO more fun than the traditional finish out right. The only reason not to do it IMO is that it can be wet at times, but it's been bone dry this season.

Have fun. It's a fine route. Feel free to PM if you have additional questions. I'm pretty familiar with the Grape.

Rob, Brian, Andy, Derek,

Thank you all for the great tips. Just one question:

Andy Kowles wrote:Agree that the only doubles you may want are hand size camalots or equivalent. I didn't bring a #4, but I did run it out on Reppy's a tad. Have fun, Moby Grabe rules!

Hand size = #2? I'm just trying to be a bit more precise, since one man's hand may be another man's fist...

It seems like the consensus, if there is one, is that if I want to sew it up on Reppy's (and I may) then I should have doubles in Camalot 0.5-3, and maybe a #4. And, it sounds like #2 camalot is the most crucial size to have plenty of coverage in.

Thanks all...

Hi Don,

My thinking when I said hand-sized was #1, #2, and #3 Camalots. Bringing those in doubles, plus the #4 that someone else mentions, and the route will be quite comfy.

You'll not strictly need the doubles after Reppy's but you can always use them to plug and chug and cruise...

Go for it! It's rewarding, and have fun turning all those airy roofs!

Don MacKenzie wrote:Rob, Brian, Andy, Derek, Thank you all for the great tips. Just one question: Hand size = #2? I'm just trying to be a bit more precise, since one man's hand may be another man's fist... It seems like the consensus, if there is one, is that if I want to sew it up on Reppy's (and I may) then I should have doubles in Camalot 0.5-3, and maybe a #4. And, it sounds like #2 camalot is the most crucial size to have plenty of coverage in. Thanks all...

I use #2 (gold) Camalots above the pod in Reppy's. Someone else recommended #3s. They probably both work. I use only one #3 to protect getting out of the pod. No need for anything larger. As mentioned, you can use some slightly smaller stuff below the pod. I've done Moby Grape four times now and Reppy's six. I've done the original start once after a huge chunk of it fell down. Original start is still doable but you wouldn't want to. This photo may help.
Moby-Grape-Belays

Go for it, you kids will love it. Don't forget to get an early start.

Crux is the third pitch for me. The finger crack below the triangle roof, and the roof itself.

The psycho crux (TM) for me is the Finger o' fate. When fit, I can hand traverse to a stylish mantel. The rest of the time I hunker down and make sweet , sweet love to it. You'll see what I mean.

As Brian said above, above the pod, #2 camalot and #3 camalots both fit. Make sure you save at least 3 of these cams for above the pod. I find its better to carry double #2 and double #3 because triple #2 is a little less flexible. If youre not comfortable on wide hands you can bring 3 #2 and 2 #3 and sew it up. The crux is actually the 3rd pitch roof and that protects well with a #2 camalot. As was stated above Cannon is not the place to find out whether or not you can lead 5.8 crack. You should be comfortable moving over moderate terrain and comfortable with moderate runouts over easy terrain. You need to be able to move efficiently, it gets cold for your belayer and parties below you if they sit at the belay not moving for long periods of time.

Hope this helps, good luck, This is one of the best moderate routes in the Northeast.