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party of 3 on multipitch

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Go Back to Super Topo · · Lex · Joined Dec 2010 · Points: 285

Was just wondering what the best way to go about muli-pitch routes with a group of three. In the past I have done it where there is a leader and then one of the climbers following is tied in on a bite about 10 feet in front of the last climber tied into the other end. I don't like this method because if any of the followers falls then so does the other.

So I am wondering what is the best way to go about this. It should also be noted that we will can use a 2 rope system. So how do you guys do this/what is the best way?

Rick Blair · · Denver · Joined Oct 2007 · Points: 266

The way to deal with a party of three is to find a 4th partner or convince someone to stay home.

LeeAB Brinckerhoff · · Austin, TX · Joined Aug 2008 · Points: 10,288

Or, you can belay both seconds at the same time with a Reverso or ACT Guide true device from the anchor, it only adds a couple of minutes at most per pitch if done correctly.

Go Back to Super Topo · · Lex · Joined Dec 2010 · Points: 285
LeeAB wrote:Or, you can belay both seconds at the same time with a Reverso or ACT Guide true device from the anchor, it only adds a couple of minutes at most per pitch if done correctly.
I'm assuming in this scenario it would done with each follower tied into their own rope and then belayed at the same time as such?
Tready Ready · · Bozeman · Joined Aug 2008 · Points: 0

If time isn't an issue (and you're not on a super popular route), have the 2nd trail another rope. Then, that person brings the third up while the leader reracks/eats/whatever.

bearbreeder · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2009 · Points: 3,065

belay both at once in autoblock mode ... keep the stronger climber on the bottom

if you need to ask more about it i suggest getting someone experienced to show you and reading the relevant literature about it ... its not something you want to be figuring out on the climb or on the intrawebs ...

and practice it ... you should know how to rescue/aid either party as i assume the people yr taking up are much less experienced than you ...

Tony T · · Denver, CO · Joined Jul 2009 · Points: 45

Psh, I scoff at people who scoff at parties of three. It all depends on experience and style.

First, count the vertical feet in the pitches you're doing, divide by three, and see if taking a single 70m rope and tying in on a bight (alpine butterfly NOT figure 8) would suffice. If not, take a second rope and have the leader trail it. With three people, it shouldn't be a problem to haul more ropes and will make any rappels super simple!

Second, ATC/Reverso in autoblock mode! These are fantastic, and if used efficiently and properly can enable a party of three to climb nearly as fast as a party of two.

I climbed the Casual Route on the Diamond in a party of two others without issue. In fact, we climbed faster than a party of two that was trying to get ahead of us. It did involve one of our party soloing the North Chimney and the first pitch of the Casual and setting up the ATC Guide and bring up the second and third at the same time.

As mentioned earlier, get proper training and become proficient in this climbing style before taking it to a serious place like the alpine.

Ed Wright · · Unknown Hometown · Joined May 2006 · Points: 285

The most efficient way I have found to climb with a party of three is to have 2 climbers swing leads and fix a rope so the third can climb with a self-belay on top rope. With this method three can climb as fast as two and you don't have to have somebody trying to belay two at the same time, which in my opinion is dangerous and really sucks.

Superclimber · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2009 · Points: 1,310

"Two's company, three's a crowd four's a mess." Or something like that.

Go Back to Super Topo · · Lex · Joined Dec 2010 · Points: 285

yeah not ditching the third person...thread is party of 3 so post accordingly as ditching or adding a climber isn't an option folks

John Husky · · Unknown Hometown · Joined May 2011 · Points: 5

What's with the snarking? Get off the couch.

Anyway, OP:

I very often climb with three. It is not that slow if you are efficient. The middle ties in with two ropes. The two ends swap leads. The middle re-racks and carries a pack, if needed. If the middle wants a lead you need cow tails and carefully re-tie in.

The key is picking a route with big enough belays. It can be a much more fun day out, having some one to talk to at belays. Since the rack is ready to go when the third gets there, and there is an extra set of hands at the belays, you can make very good time once you figure out your system.

Robert Cort · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2009 · Points: 800
Tony T. wrote:... and tying in on a bight (alpine butterfly NOT figure 8) would suffice.
If using a single rope, I prefer to have the second tie in with a bowline on a bight. That way they are tied directly into the rope, and don't risk a cross loaded 'biner in the event of a fall. If tying (clipping) into an alpine butterfly, suggest using two lockers for the same reason.

That being said, I prefer using twins or half ropes, the second(s) are both tied into their own rope. It doesn't add much weight, the loads are split better, you now have two ropes for rappels, and if a rope gets stuck or something your options are more plentiful. If swinging leads, the change over at belays is a little complicated if you want to avoid re-stacking the ropes. Basically, the new leader gets the rope end from the second that is not going to lead, and the previous leader gives their end of that same rope back to the person that just gave up their end. The ropes should now feed out as stacked.
cassondra l · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Nov 2008 · Points: 335

Kong Gigi is also good device for belaying two from above (as well as just one.) As John mentioned, company can be nice. Some pitches do not lend themselves well to tandem belay. In that case, the catarpillar method (2nd person drags the rope for the 3rd, perhaps leaving and reclipping gear for him if needed) can be employed. It would be good to go climbing as a party of three with someone who is experienced in these methods, the techniques are not difficult to pick up. However, as has been mentioned, it is probably not a good idea to try it figure it out as you go.

Eric Fjellanger · · Unknown Hometown · Joined May 2008 · Points: 870

I've climbed as 3 quite a bit, and by far my favorite way to do it is to lead with double ropes, and have a follower tied into each. Then belay off the anchor with a guide-type device, so you can tend each rope separately. The followers climb simultaneously, about 15 feet apart. It's fast, the biggest problem is rope management, it takes a while to get used to. I usually pretend they are one rope and pile or flake them together, but there are sometimes shenanigans when it is time to get ready for the next lead.

Leading in series might be necessary on a hard route... I probably would try not to take 3 people on what I considered a hard route.

Go Back to Super Topo · · Lex · Joined Dec 2010 · Points: 285

the routes we will be doing will be at least 2 grades below our leading ability (all climbers are capable of climbing 5.9/5.10 trad and the routes we are doing are in the 5.6-5.7 range)

So no routes that will challenge any member of the party

Go Back to Super Topo · · Lex · Joined Dec 2010 · Points: 285
The Dread Pirate Killis wrote:Threesomes are fun, I don't know what you guys are using the ropes for, though. Y'all's is too damn kinkay for me...
Oh trust me, I don't need any advice on THOSE kind of threesomes....
Michael Slater · · Denver · Joined Aug 2010 · Points: 0
Tready wrote:If time isn't an issue (and you're not on a super popular route), have the 2nd trail another rope. Then, that person brings the third up while the leader reracks/eats/whatever.
+1, works fairly well. You do have the problem of a crowded belay station but that is what happens when you have an odd numbered party.
Rick Blair · · Denver · Joined Oct 2007 · Points: 266
mozeman wrote:yeah not ditching the third person...thread is party of 3 so post accordingly as ditching or adding a climber isn't an option folks
Yeah, but someone had answer that way so this thread could move on to real answers. Don't worry, you don't have to buy me a beer.
Go Back to Super Topo · · Lex · Joined Dec 2010 · Points: 285
Rick Blair wrote: Yeah, but someone had answer that way so this thread could move on to real answers. Don't worry, you don't have to buy me a beer.
lol fair enough
rex parker · · las vegas n.v · Joined Aug 2006 · Points: 245

Climbing with three people... why.. crowded belays long breaks . And I don't care how you decided to do it or what method you use.  Loading that much weight on a trad anchor . No thank you . The rope management hassle . Besides if some one had to be tied off of belay .. hassle . Just sounds like a headache. And the method of using two ropes and belaying both seconds at the same time 15 feet apart , on one device . Sorry this stuff is crazy . Find another person to split it up or tell some one sorry three is a crowd . I wouldn't be bothered with all that . That's just me . 

Todd R · · Vansion, CO / WY · Joined May 2014 · Points: 40

You may/may not be equipped or have the experience for this, but the fastest way I've found is to have the third traxion up. Basically, the second trails a rope, clipping/leaving directionals as necessary, fixes it at the belay, then begins racking up to lead the next pitch. The second then swings into his lead while the third traxions up the rope like a normal top-rope solo setup. You can swing leads as you want, and as long as all three of you are dialed on systems it doesn't take much longer than climbing as a team of two. Obviously, three is never as fast as two, but you can come close with this set up. 

Also, in response to the previous reply "loading that much weight on a trad anchor. No thank you."  Ummm... it's an anchor. If the weight of an extra person is worrisome you're building some worrisome anchors. 

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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