I'm too poor to climb

bergbryce wrote:Not sure about you guys but I know I prefer to climb with a frayed webbing harness and some wood blocks.

Also some of those non sticky rubber shoes, kind of adds to the adventure.

On a side note, last time I was at Tahquitz I followed a father and two sons up a pitch of WMB. They were using swami belts and hip belays and the shortest ropes I had ever seen. Oh yeah and slung hexes, knotted slings. Too bad I smoked by them throwing in the occasional cam. I was happy I had dropped the coin on my equipment and was not dirt bagging it like them. Color me weak.

Andrew Gram wrote:Climbing is incredibly cheap - much, much cheaper than skiing/snowboarding, road or mountain biking, fly fishing, surfing, golfing, rafting, kayaking, etc.

I was just about to type out a detailed post to this point using actual price-specific & longevity examples, but it's not worth it.

The fact is obvious to anyone who thinks about it for a minute: climbing requires both a smaller initial investment & the gear outlasts the basic components of sports like Andrew mentions in his post (especially mtn biking and skiing!).

Andrew Gram wrote:Climbing is incredibly cheap - much, much cheaper than skiing/snowboarding, road or mountain biking, fly fishing, surfing, golfing, rafting, kayaking, etc. The beauty of it is that you can chip away at it over time without the layaway plan - the learning curve actually encourages that since you have no business with a trad rack on day 1 anyway. I got a job at a pizza place back when I was in high school. First paycheck was a pair of shoes. Second was a harness and chalk bag, then some biners/slings/atc, then quickdraws, then slowly worked on a trad rack. Booty was an integral part of the beginning rack as well. After a year of what seemed like hard work to a snot-nosed 17 year old, I had a good enough rack to climb most things.

I agree with this 100%

I started putting together a proper rock rack over the winter. I had been ice climbing for a few years so i had more than a few things already. One piece at a time "ON SALE" i have nearly a full rack at 25% off or more a piece here a piece there.

Being i spend quite a bit of time following i really don't use the thing all that much tbh. And tbh when i do lead a pitch it is often on my partners rack as we already have it out as they just lead a pitch harder than i am ready to lead but am fine to follow.

I agree as apposed to many things one could do Climbing is very inexpensive. Gas is by far my biggest expense as i live 2-4 hours from quality climbing and make the trip at leas twice a week. Lodging is second on that list. Running is about as inexpensive as it gets but my damned injured feet cant run anymore so....

Andrew is a sport? Apparently he does not last?

Oops quote thingy failed. In reference to Nick.

APBT1976 wrote: I agree with this 100% I started putting together a proper rock rack over the winter. I had been ice climbing for a few years so i had more than a few things already. One piece at a time "ON SALE" i have nearly a full rack at 25% off or more a piece here a piece there. Being i spend quite a bit of time following i really don't use the thing all that much tbh. And tbh when i do lead a pitch it is often on my partners rack as we already have it out as they just lead a pitch harder than i am ready to lead but am fine to follow. I agree as apposed to many things one could do Climbing is very inexpensive. Gas is by far my biggest expense as i live 2-4 hours from quality climbing and make the trip at leas twice a week. Lodging is second on that list. Running is about as inexpensive as it gets but my damned injured feet cant run anymore so....

Ow yeah and i place more nuts and hexes than anything else. Often my cams just hang from my sling..

Haha, cut-and-paste editing issues. Problem fixed.

You can piece together your rack but can end up spending more coin bc often times a set of something is cheaper (per unit) than purchasing individual units.

On the other hand, as others have said, a noob really has no business purchasing a whole rack all at once (and that is why you see people with the large hexes and tricams, which is dead weight IMO).

If you break it down the upfront cost for climbing is similar to that of skiing/snowboarding, with a similar gear lifetime (~10-15yrs). Purchase of a new rack of cams cost $500-$600 , rope $150-$200, slings and biners, cordelette, etc ~$300+, shoes ~$150, chalk bag, harness ~$200. Right there you could have a sweet backcountry ski setup. And we haven't even added in the camping component. Doesn't sounds inexpensive to me.

Sure you could buy a bunch of used crap from someone online, but do you really want to do that?

youtube.com/watch?v=bpEWlLC…

you could sell all your possessions move to another country with good stone and under developed climbing, begin the climbing culture anew, except your new climbing partners will see through your "poor stick" because no matter how poor you are you will have alot more than they have...this experience will make appreciate what you have and the occasional climber who has plenty of cash and lets everyone know it (wich i find rare)I think most climbers are still the nomadic free spirit crowd.

Fred... you're definitely bolstering the numbers to support your claims. And since you used the bc ski analogy, the only thing that's going to last even half as long as your cams are the Dynafits!

I, for one, have a TON of the "used cams" you seem to be so against on my Creek rack and trust them every bit as much as any other...

Like others have said many times over, you don't need all the shit in your little "up front" package right away... not even close!

To me, that always seemed to be part of the beauty of climbing... shoes, chalkbag, harness, locker, belay device, and a mentor. Guess that point is lost on you?

Climbing didn't begin 50 years ago. Prior to that it was practiced mostly by folks who were affluent, college educated or attending university. At some point folks decided that climbing was easier (and more awesome) than "real life", family, friends & other commitments, so they started doing what they had to do to climb full time. Also the only way to get stronger and climb harder is climb a lot, so thats what they did. Now climbing is popular and there are too many people trying to live the dirtbag life to make it work for everyone who wants to.

Look for sales and used gear and don't buy gear so you can climb this climb that you want to this weekend.

Joe.

I work for REI. What I say are my own opinions and do not reflect those of REI.

Interesting topic.

Of course this is just anecdotal but... I've got just over $500 in my bc ski setup and less than $1200 invested in ALL of my climbing gear. That includes alpine. I'm sure you could include my basic camping gear in that number as well. I've got at least a triple rack and enough gear on my own to sew up long aid routes, but only one cam on my rack was purchased new by me. Of course you'd never know that if you laid my rack next to any one of my partners that have bought ALL new gear.

I've bought most of my soft goods new but I wait for and shop the clearance deals. Usually buy it new for less than it's selling on MP used.

I've also used a seat belt as an adjustable daisy and I've made a ton of my own gear. I get out at least 120 days a year doing something that makes my wife worried. I have very few pieces of shiny gear.

I've had a few partners scoff at my dirtbag ways but they're not the ones with me on a Wednesday afternoon when I've got the entire mountain to myself. They're sitting in a cube someplace trolling the interwebz day dreaming about skiing or climbing while I'm out doing it.

You don't have to spend big bucks to get outside but we as a society seem to have decided that we need to spend a shit ton of moolah in order to feel safe walking out our front doors.

Plus, that dead bird logo is just simply kick ass.

100 years ago, climbing involved natural fiber ropes and not much else ... even pitons were controversial and, according to some, "unsporting". And in order to be able to afford the time and travel to visit remote mountain areas, you had to be rich.

There are still plenty of people out there who enjoy "scrambling", but we no longer have much admiration for them. I think much of the answer to the original post is that climbing has changed dramatically.

The real cost of climbing is opportunity cost. Gear maybe a summer's hard work.

Gear may seem expensive if you hang out with people who have disposable income and always have the latest and greatest. Hangout with people who are doing odd jobs to live where they want, and you'll realize that these people are typically motivated and smart and could be pulling in money if they wanted it.

Doug Hemken wrote:100 years ago, climbing involved natural fiber ropes and not much else ... even pitons were controversial and, according to some, "unsporting". And in order to be able to afford the time and travel to visit remote mountain areas, you had to be rich. There are still plenty of people out there who enjoy "scrambling", but we no longer have much admiration for them. I think much of the answer to the original post is that climbing has changed dramatically.

Life has changed dramatically period end of story.

TBH i don't care much for the changes that the majority of the population seem to be so enamored by but it is what it is right?

Mostly it is a selfish feeling as it has made a more simple way of life for those whom desire such much more hard to obtain and pull off.

The way i see it is you can either choose to try and figure a way to work around what it is the majority want "a modern life with full of all kinds of shit that take all your time to maintain" the best you can. Or drink the cool aid get all pissed off about it loose your focus and throw your life away joining the rest of the sheep.

Either way at least the choice is still ours. My next big hurdle in life. Purchase a piece of land in the middle of the woods for 25-60k so when i am old and tired i don't find myself living under a bridge or in a shelter or in some sad ass apartment depressed as shit this is all my life came down to.

if u can climb hard all you need is rope (85$ in canada) , shoes and harness... just go to areas with permadraws and climb ... add 12 draws (~150$) and yr set for sport weeniesm ....

add a few used nuts and cams ... plenty of people selling whole racks for good prices

plenty of other sports are more expensive

the problem IMO is that too many people fall for the yuppie marketing ... you dont need those fancy $$$ biners, that $$$ duodess dry treated rope, those brand new shiny link cams, that dead bird cragging pack and harness, those prana pants, etc ...

buy what works, use it well ... i know plenty of people who climb on the cheap ...

Agh, yes the good old days, when climbing was pure and climbers' were true dirt bags in the best connotation of the phrase. Right, do a little research. Yes, there were a lot less climbers, but all the same demographics were represented. John Long's dad in a medical doctor. John Bachar's dad was a math prof, I think. Kurt Smith comes from a well to do family. Many of the Stone Masters were college students. The more things change the more things stay the same.

Evidently, this is how the some of the folks protect their climbs in the island paradise where the OP lives.

youtube.com/watch?v=vN1xpck…

Back before I was a climber with a job and a disposable income I was a dirt poor skydiver. Back then I toured around the country working at skydiving centers, jumping everyday, living out of tents and trailers, or sharing houses and expenses. Since I was working I had a modest income, however I lived dirt cheap and saved most of my money. So when the time came that I was tired of being a bum I went to school and paid cash for it. The habit of living cheap never really died, so now I live in a roach trap, drive a pos, and have lots and lots of cool toys. In fact, my new kayak should be here tomorrow. I would never trade those early years, but now I've come to value my toys and income.

Fred I am pretty sure I said it once but I will say it again I have a complete rack rope everything for under 600. Matt N has done the same. Threre are plenty of people that prove your numbers wrong. And btw I would not typically include shoes or rope in my total cost analysis. Both are consumables. But for the sake of the argument I threw them both in.