sliming up the Forks

Greg DeMatteo wrote:30 years of climbing at the Forks and chalk is your problem? Not the Ponderosas that are slowy falling into the canyon? A few holds aren't the exact same as they were 3 decades ago and you want to unilaterally declare the Forks a chalk free zone?

Thank you for seeing the forest through the trees!!! There are problems andd there are problems. Lets be concerned with the big issues before we address the small ones (not to say the small ones shouldn't be addressed).

I'm a peaceful fellow, and I think it's generally wrong to be telling people what they can, or can't do- especially when it comes to climbing. I apologize for my original post coming off as such. Better wording for my hypothetical sign would probably have been, 'Please minimize the use of chalk'.

I'll never make such a sign cause I'd rather me and the minority of non-chalkers be a bit bummed out, rather than the majority of people that have posted here being downright mad about such a suggestion... but if I did, I'd make it out of hickory or mesquite, without any paint or stain, and attach it with a wingnut such that it's easy to remove...

s.price wrote: Make sure it's made out of wood so someone can burn it in a campfire cause that's all the sign will be good for.

... so at least it would be good for a natural seasoning for the burgers and rib-eyes you're hopefully grilling up.

That said, I do think the overuse of chalk is detrimental to the sport of climbing. Overuse being the key word. As much for myself and welcoming civil comments from anyone else of course, here's what I see as the pros and cons of climbing with chalk:

The Goods:
-There's a cool, almost superhero feel to dipping your hands in chalk; heightens your focus, and increases your confidence for the task at hand.
-no doubt that a chalked hand sticks better to those butter-dished slopers.
-You can climb harder routes if you use chalk, especially if you have sweaty hands like I do.
-Good call Vaughne with non-chalked hands adding a layer of sweaty grime to the holds, which can be even slippery and harder to remove than chalk itself.

The Bad:
-People forgetting to close their bags after a climb, and then spilling piles of the stuff along the descent or at the base.
-Hangdoggin at a crux, and chalking up over and over again.
-For me at least, seeing a route (such as Queenfolia) all chalked up is just plain unsightly.
-While a good rain/monsoon can certainly help, I've been to the Forks during/after many a deluge, and the amount of chalk that gets washed away is minimal. That last good hold at the top of Watusi has been chalky white for the past 15 years.
-Tick marks are fine with me, but only when you wash/brush them off when you're done.

Greg DeMatteo is certainly correct in that the use of chalk is minor when compared to the other impacts climbers are having at the Forks, especially slinging the trees at the top for setting a rap line. What I usually do is loosely tie to a tree, with a bit of slack as a backup, and then throw in a couple pieces of gear at the edge of the cliff to take the brunt of the rappel. I'm absolutely against setting some fixed gear at this place, but I also wonder how many more raps that tree atop the Prow is going to hold.

Anyway, apologies to have come off as a purist who's pissing and moaning about using chalk at the Forks. But as a friendly suggestion, please try and minimize the use of the stuff when you can.

And to put my time and money where my mouth is, I'll probably head out there early next week with a couple of five gallon buckets and a plastic bristled brush... anyone have any suggestions on routes they would, or would not, like to see chalk free?

Happy climbing everyone!

^^^+1

A wise man (with initials J.S.) once said "the most important aspect of chalking up is the fact that it makes you release one hand and wiggle your fingers".

When I saw John's comment about J.S. I initially thought he might be referring to me, but the "wise man" description quickly cured me of that notion. So up front I should admit that my name is Joe and I’m a chalkoholic. That said, one of my gripes with chalk use has to do with how it affects the onsighting of routes. At times I have had the experience of getting baffled in the middle of a crux sequence before finally noticing some chalk on a hold or a tick mark, then desperately throwing for what turned out to be a good hold thereby allowing the “onsight”. Each time this happens I can’t help wondering how different that experience was relative to early attempts on the route before there was lots of chalk to help narrow the hold choices.

Hey gang... really chalk isnt going anyhwere... just gotta get use to it. What I do is use colored chalk.... really easy to make. Go to home depot.. over where the mortar is... they have colored powder which is added to mortar .. works really well to color chalk. Comes in all earth tones... I mix 50-50 with chalk and behold chalk that blends in. I have reddish for Sedona.. grey for granite.. and dark for the forks and indian creek. I admit I am the only one using colored chalk.. but what the heck. If the routes you love are a tad slimy.. rap the route (which wont cause anymore work at the forks) an brush it. I do think we should have rap hardware at the forks... one at every wall....the forks is no longer a wilderness area... its a major climbing area that needs managed.....I see too many folks not padding the pines.. they will suffer.. and the rims and top of the climbs will erode from the ropes draggin... .. no matter how much you preach, people will be irresonsible. Just like campfires... you can teach to drown n stir a campfire all you want .. but the dummies will burn the forests down....
The gal preaching not to use chalk.. funny.. all the pics are her being roped from above.. till you are on the sharp end of some sandbagged 10 in the Sierras... lying life n limb on the line 6 pitches up... making some crazy reach from a micro edge to a sloper.... then see if you dip into a little powder.... if not... you r my idol...
cheers...
lou

JoeS wrote:When I saw John's comment about J.S. I initially thought he might be referring to me, but the "wise man" description quickly cured me of that notion.

Oops...... I'd like to say I was thinking of you Joe. But I'm refering to the JS who wrote a guidebook back in the 80s.

JoeS wrote:When I saw John's comment about J.S. I initially thought he might be referring to me, but the "wise man" description quickly cured me of that notion.

From one chalkaholic named Joe to another, I'd count you in the 'wise man' category.

Being tall, lanky, and usually requiring different beta than others, I find that just as often chalk helps my onsight attempt, it will ruin it when I grab a hold that is the preferred hold for most people, but is just a sucker hold for me.

Hey 1EricRichard you said
"...like Paul Davidson (Davidson's Dihedral), Steve Grossman, and Peter Noebels being some of my favorite climbing partners.."

That touches on some area history. If its not a sore spot for anyone: care to recount a tale about "the Forks' chalk wars" in the mid 80's?

I quit chalk about 3 years ago and am plenty happy by the way.

Steve

I spent a day scrubbing a couple of routes at the Forks with a bucket of soap and water about ten years ago. At the end of the day it basically looked the same as when I started. Maybe a better solvent than water would do something?

My personal opinion is how slick the holds feel has nothing to do with whether people use chalk. I sweat, sometimes a lot. When I haven't used chalk I've had people complain I'm making the holds slick because I'm not using chalk, and when I've used chalk I've had people complain I'm making the holds slick because I'm using it.

Steve Pulver wrote: My personal opinion is how slick the holds feel has nothing to do with whether people use chalk.

+1

i decided to go back to the ball chalk. ive been using the loose stuff and its either im spilling it all or get it in my eyes besides the ball kinda gives that little bit of finger excersise while u standing there decyphering the next move.

Grimey hands or not, trying to cling onto a chalked up hold, especially at the crux of a route where chalk is ridiculously slathered upon a key hold... that sucks. People use chalk, it makes them climb harder routes that they otherwise could, but please realize that like littering breadcrumbs, cigarette butts, and orange peels... please use chalk sparingly.

Not at all wanting to be viewed as a purist (though I've led the Prow and the Trinities barefoot, dumbass me), the overuse of chalk bums me out.

Happy fun safe climbing to all,
Ryan

ryan albery wrote:People use chalk, it makes them climb harder routes that (sic) they otherwise could...

I do not understand this statement. Chalk doesn't have special spidey powers; it absorbs the moisture of sweaty hands, and that's it. Otherwise, I'd be going through pounds of chalk per route and climbing 5.12.

Bridgette your doing it wrong. You need to pour a bucket of it over yourself. It's like fairy dust.

I wish I had some stories about the chalk wars but I got here after that. I can say that every innovation, chalk, sticky rubber, cams, rap bolting has changed the competitive playing field. If it wasn't competitive no one would give a crap. But since one party feels that another has an advantage there is usually a clash between them.

Regarding JS's comment about chalk making onsights easier. My experience has been that I get screwed by chalk as often as it helps me.

I think that grinding dirty climbing shoes into the holds at the Forks is more to blame for slick holds than the use of chalk. The sweat and chalk just make it shine.... Go out to Turkey Tanks sometime and inspect the footholds. Slick as all hell right? Hmmmm.

1Eric Rhicard wrote:?....... Regarding JS's comment about chalk making onsights easier. My experience has been that I get screwed by chalk as often as it helps me.

I wish I could blame a failed onsight on chalk, but for me it's just stupidity......

Are you in violation of Guideline #1 if you slander yourself?