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Mt Evans Fee Issue

Original Post
Buff Johnson · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2005 · Points: 1,145

Is officially settled.

Not only will the forest service no longer be charging everyone, but looks like they'll be building a bypass around the fee/welcome station entrance. Which really isn't something new, Hwy 5 is already the bypass.

Mount Evans amenity fee dropped for those not using facilities

David Appelhans · · Broomfield, CO · Joined Nov 2007 · Points: 410

Finally. Bastards.

Taylor-B. · · Valdez, AK · Joined Oct 2009 · Points: 3,186

What about the people that are employed by the NF that depend on those fees for a wage, that really helps the economy eh. What is wrong with supporting the one branch of the government that does help maintain and protect are recreation areas and wilderness. If you don't pay the fee to use the facilities than I hope that every one packs out there own poop. I would rather pay a couple bucks to use a outhouse than trying to pull the crux with poop in my pack. FYI your NPS pass is good at Mount Evans.

Buff Johnson · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2005 · Points: 1,145

The FS amenities which employ those working in conservation are encompassed in the fee. So yes, the amenities concerning the conservation & sanitation high impact areas are fee for use. I agree, the fee itself is not 'all bad.'

The road and forest/wilderness is already paid by the taxpayers. The maintainence of the road and right of way are maintained by CDOT. The forest system itself was created not as a series of preserves, but to be used for its natural resources. The wilderness designation was supposed to be "protected" as roadless and non motorized-vehicle access area, but it's really already not, so the wilderness designation here seems actually more a misnomer, to me.

I can certainly agree with personal responsibility about leave no trace. This settlement addresses the focused impact of the mass market tourist better; so I don't see the problem with working this out as with the settlement. Climbers aren't going to invade the area like a pillaging hoard, maybe half a dozen technical climbers per week on the walls, if even that.

Tim Stich · · Colorado Springs, Colorado · Joined Jan 2001 · Points: 1,520

Glad to hear.

Die.

Tony T · · Denver, CO · Joined Jul 2009 · Points: 45

I'm glad they hashed this out.

I'm guessing the three improved areas are Mt. Goliath Nature Center, Summit Lake, and the "Summit" parking lot? They're going to have to figure something out with roadside parking because the pull-offs they currently have aren't going to be able to cope.

I agree that if this would be a bad thing if it diverted revenue from an otherwise fairly needy department, but the fact that we already pay for this road through our taxes to CDOT kills me. Taxing us twice isn't right or fair.

Taylor-B. · · Valdez, AK · Joined Oct 2009 · Points: 3,186

Yes, funding for this road comes from our tax$$$, but... how much tax$$ Mt. Evans receives for road maintenance is based off of user numbers and user fees generated by the NF. If you have been on that road lately it is literally falling off the side of the mountain and in poor shape.

If you are a climber, you probably love to climb in parks such as RMNP, Black Canyon, Zion, Grand Teton, ect, and should probably already have a NPS pass that is also good at Mt. Evans. So then, why are climbers "bitching" about a user fee. Let the tourist industry of Colorado take care of its self by charging people a reasonable fee for awesome access to a beautiful place. Us climbers already pay the fee for our National Parks, and $80 is a pretty good deal for a pass.

PS. What about Pikes Peak and their dictatorship, at least at Mt. Evans you can get a alpine start.

Buff Johnson · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2005 · Points: 1,145
Rowdy Wrangellian wrote:Yes, funding for this road comes from our tax$$$, but... how much tax$$ Mt. Evans receives for road maintenance is based off of user numbers and user fees generated by the NF. If you have been on that road lately it is literally falling off the side of the mountain and in poor shape.
I agree the road has a few issues, the lincoln lake turn is notable, the approach to summit lake as well. However, road maintenance is not based on any fee generated by the forest service, it's a state owned highway.

No kidding about Pikes Peak, they love their tank-proof gating system.
Tim Stich · · Colorado Springs, Colorado · Joined Jan 2001 · Points: 1,520
Buff Johnson wrote: ...However, road maintenance is not based on any fee generated by the forest service, it's a state owned highway.
No matter how many times you state this, there is going to be someone tripping over themselves to say how good a person they are for paying unrelated fees.
J. Thompson · · denver, co · Joined Jan 2001 · Points: 1,425
Rowdy Wrangellian wrote: NPS pass that is also good at Mt. Evans.
Just to be clear...the NPS pass is NOT good at Mount Evans (or Red Rock Nv. Or 11 mile etc.) A Golden Eagle pass is good at all of those places. There is a difference between the pass that gets you into JUST the National Parks and the Golden Eagle which gets you inot all US fee areas.

I'm glad they are doing away with the "fee"...although you haven't actually had to pay it the last few years.
I'm curious to see what happens at summit lake....since that area is actually owmed by Denver Mountain Parks...AKA the city of Denver.

josh
Chris Plesko · · Westminster, CO · Joined Oct 2007 · Points: 485

Are you sure? I showed my NP pass and I definitely don't have the golden eagle pass.

Taylor-B. · · Valdez, AK · Joined Oct 2009 · Points: 3,186

There is no iron ranger at the fee station to obtain a pass before operating hours. I either just put my GOLDEN EAGLE PASS in the windshield of my car, or if I get a ticket I just track down one of the rangers in the parking lot and they void it. All the NF rangers I have dealt with are super nice and friendly.

Sorry about the confusion with the standard NPS pass and a golden eagle pass. I'm an American too and I just bend over and give the government tons of my money.

Tony T · · Denver, CO · Joined Jul 2009 · Points: 45
Rowdy Wrangellian wrote:if you are a climber, you probably love to climb in parks such as RMNP, Black Canyon, Zion, Grand Teton, ect, and should probably already have a NPS pass that is also good at Mt. Evans. So then, why are climbers "bitching" about a user fee. Let the tourist industry of Colorado take care of its self by charging people a reasonable fee for awesome access to a beautiful place. Us climbers already pay the fee for our National Parks, and $80 is a pretty good deal for a pass.
Unless you enter the parks before the fee collectors arrive at the gate. I climb in RMNP often enough and alpine starts usually afford you free entry. I also have a low-income state parks pass called the Centennial Pass.

Regardless, I agree that our taxes barely fund crap in this country because we "enjoy" some of the lowest tax rates in the industrialized world. I'm just glad they figured out the discrepancy. I still went to Mt. Evans, and even though I knew there was a dispute and a few choice words with the fee collector usually allowed you free driving, but I still paid.
Rick Blair · · Denver · Joined Oct 2007 · Points: 266
Stich wrote: No matter how many times you state this, there is going to be someone tripping over themselves to say how good a person they are for paying unrelated fees.
Hah Hah, awesome! As a Denver resident, being asked to pay to drive a State highway to visit a Denver Mtn Park was a little much. Denver Mtn Parks has parking lots and toilets all over the place that they do not charge to visit.
ShibbyShane · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jan 2009 · Points: 15
J. Thompson wrote: Just to be clear...the NPS pass is NOT good at Mount Evans (or Red Rock Nv. Or 11 mile etc.) A Golden Eagle pass is good at all of those places. There is a difference between the pass that gets you into JUST the National Parks and the Golden Eagle which gets you inot all US fee areas. I'm glad they are doing away with the "fee"...although you haven't actually had to pay it the last few years. I'm curious to see what happens at summit lake....since that area is actually owmed by Denver Mountain Parks...AKA the city of Denver. josh
For federal fee areas there's an Interagency Pass (probably what Rowdy was refering to, and what used to be called the Golden Eagle/Golden Age pass) that covers NPS, Forest Service, BLM, etc. Individual parks sometimes sell an annual pass for just that park, but there's no pass for NPS that excludes other federal areas.

If that makes sense...
Taylor-B. · · Valdez, AK · Joined Oct 2009 · Points: 3,186

Tony T.-"Unless you enter the parks before the fee collectors arrive at the gate. I climb in RMNP often enough and alpine starts usually afford you free entry."

Doesn't the fee cover your ass for SAR in the National Park? There's no fee for Wrangell St. Elias National Park and there for no budget for a SAR crew. Years ago my buddy got frost bite on an expedition and we had to fly him out via private ski plane, that cost about $1,700, and that still only got him to within a 8hr car drive to a hospital.

Does any one know if your ass is covered for SAR expenses with a fee or even a fishing license?

Buff Johnson · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2005 · Points: 1,145

There's no charge for rescue. The mountain rescue team (operating under the county sheriff's authority) runs it's own independent budget based on donations, grants, and some replacement cost items through the dola, which is that small fee tacked onto a license. With the NPS, it's allocated in the annual budget, and they don't charge for rescue either.

Flight will charge for the heli medical transport, if that's needed, which will be under your health insurance/medical expense.

J. Thompson · · denver, co · Joined Jan 2001 · Points: 1,425
ShibbyShane wrote: For federal fee areas there's an Interagency Pass (probably what Rowdy was refering to, and what used to be called the Golden Eagle/Golden Age pass) that covers NPS, Forest Service, BLM, etc. Individual parks sometimes sell an annual pass for just that park, but there's no pass for NPS that excludes other federal areas. If that makes sense...
Yep I just checked...they've streamlined it in the last couple of years. You used to able to get an 'NPS only' pass...now its all or none.
...and it's now called the "america the beautiful" pass.
I've had "Golden eagles" for so long I just always ask for that when I renew!

josh
ShibbyShane · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jan 2009 · Points: 15
J. Thompson wrote: Yep I just checked...they've streamlined it in the last couple of years. You used to able to get an 'NPS only' pass...now its all or none. ...and it's now called the "america the beautiful" pass. I've had "Golden eagles" for so long I just always ask for that when I renew! josh
Yep, lots of people still do that. No worries.
Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

Colorado
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