belay backup?

guys, we've worked a good bit with CMI over the past few years, developing gear for our canopy tour. Only recently have I really started looking at everything they make.

Spotted this....
cmi-gear.com/catalog/descen…
thinking about possibly picking one up to keep in my multi pitch pack as a backup in the event that i drop my reverso into the abyss

what do you think? kosher for a rap in the worst case scenario?

Munter hitch for dropped / forgotten belay device. Whatever crap you happen to have on you for bail gear. $0, 0 clutter.

shoo wrote:Munter hitch for dropped / forgotten belay device.

+1

And don't forget the 5-6 biner brake bar system for rappelling. Doesn't twist the ropes like the super-munter.

chockstone.org/TechTips/Cra…

shoo wrote:Munter hitch for dropped / forgotten belay device. Whatever crap you happen to have on you for bail gear. $0, 0 clutter.

+1

and if you forget how to make a biner brake or dont have 2 solid gate biners ... learn how to do a single line rap ... you can do that with a munter ...

i know most of these techniques, was just wondering if these little guys that weigh next to nothing would be a suitable emergency rap device...instead of using a munter that would twist the shit out of my rope.

Kilroywashere! wrote:i know most of these techniques, was just wondering if these little guys that weigh next to nothing would be a suitable emergency rap device...instead of using a munter that would twist the shit out of my rope.

Why carry ANYTHING, no matter how much it weighs, for that one time every 6 years that you drop a belay device.... Like everyone else said its a waste and just extra clutter. Its not like a munter irreversibly twists your rope.

How about just dont be a gumby and drop your belay device as well as carry backup/emergency gear you dont need. Nothing says gumby more than unnecessary crap hanging off your harness.

thats why it goes in my bag.

and shit happens. thats why i want to be prepared, i climb with a lot of new climbers, last thing i need is to do yet another tandem rap.

did one last year, hope it was a first and a last.

Kilroywashere! wrote:thats why it goes in my bag. and shit happens. thats why i want to be prepared, i climb with a lot of new climbers, last thing i need is to do yet another tandem rap. did one last year, hope it was a first and a last.

It sounds like you've got your mind made up. You don't need MP to give you permission.

I personally agree that it's a waste but you sound psyched on it.

meh im indifferent until i see it in person. gonna head that way tomorrow and take a look at it in person. if it looks like a waste i'll forget about it.

Kilroywashere! wrote:meh im indifferent until i see it in person. gonna head that way tomorrow and take a look at it in person. if it looks like a waste i'll forget about it.

Why is seeing it in person going to make any difference? Isnt the picture and description clear enough... either you like it or you dont.

Also what do you mean by "thats why it goes in my bag". You are going to leave it in your bag at the base of the route??? What good will it do you there? It MIGHT be a somewhat good idea to have on a multipitch route but to bring it out climbing and leave it in your pack is even dumber if thats possible. Just buy an extra ATC and leave it in your pack if thats your plan.

Kilroywashere! wrote:last thing i need is to do yet another tandem rap.

Learn the multiple ways around this instead of buying another piece of gear... You both could have rapped on munters, you could have lowered your body then rapped on a munter, you could have used the biner rappell method shown above... etc etc.

I climb with my pack, either on my back when on easier terrain, or my second carries it. never leave the ground without first aid supplies and water, as well as a few other things. I just really wanna see how heavy its going to be

and as far as the tandem rap, you dont know the situation that occurred, so please, back off.

a lot of these skills are transferable to self rescue ... and there will be that time where you or your partner forget yr "backup" should you climb enough ... youll need to improvise

practice the basic skills now and then, and keep em current ...

retro days with munters, passive pro, biner brake, etc are always fun and a bit of homage to those old geezers who paved the way

the most important piece of gear is between yr two ears ;)

Kilroywashere! wrote:instead of using a munter that would twist the shit out of my rope.

You would have to drop your belay device a lot, no?!? You that clumsy?

For the first five or so years of my climbing career, we rappelled with what was called a "swiss seat." In the modern context, this would mean clipping a carabiner to your harness belay loop, running the rappel rope through it, over the left shoulder (if right-handed), and diagonally across the back to the right hand.

This worked if you were heavily clothed, but resulted in shoulder rope burns if you were wearing a t-shirt. Moreover, I imagine it could damage modern nylon-fabric shells, which might not be able to take the heat. Our parkas in those days had a leather "rappel patch" on the left shoulder and back that prevented the fabric from being damaged.

Bob Kamps taught me a variant that solved all these problems. Instead of passing the rope over the shoulder, instead he passed it around his waist, which also provided a bit more friction than the shoulder method. If lightly clad, he'd remove his t-shirt and stuff it into his pants in order to keep from burning his mid-section. I used this method for a few years until carabiner-brake methods came into vogue. It works fine, even for totally overhanging rappels.

I've done multiple overhung raps in a row with a Munter,it wasn't ideal but the world didn't start spinning in the opposite direction either.

Kilroy,
The sticht plate you are looking at is a good backup if you are not fond of the munter. You can also use a rap ring for this function. Just make sure that the rap ring is made out of solid Al or Steel and not one of the hollow rolled cmc ones.

If you feel the need to carry a backup rappel device then maybe consider a Kong GiGi or a Camp Ovo. They are great to belay a second up since they feed rope better than atc guide or petzl reverso.

Regardless of what you end up going with always rappel with a prusik backup unless water is involved (i.e. canyoneering down a waterfall)

I actually dropped my belay piece on the last pitch of the Nose (pitch 1000?????), I can't remember, I was exhausted by that time. I did have a tiny little backup belay piece with me and I am glad I did for the raps back down to earth.

Mia Tucholke wrote:I actually dropped my belay piece on the last pitch of the Nose (pitch 1000?????), I can't remember, I was exhausted by that time. I did have a tiny little backup belay piece with me and I am glad I did for the raps back down to earth.

You rapped The Nose? On El Cap?