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Best Mixed Use Pack? Cragging, Multi-Pitch, and some Alpine

Original Post
Alex and Kona · · Boulder, CO · Joined May 2012 · Points: 0

Hi All,

I'm sure this ground has been covered several times, so if you know exactly where the info is - please let me know.

I don't want to end up a pack-rat like my Pa, so instead of getting multiple packs, each for a single function, I'm looking for the best of all worlds in my next pack:

Several times per week I crag in Boulder Canyon (trad and sport); sometimes its multi-pitch, sometimes it ain't. I also do some minimally-technical snow/ice alpine routes every now and again, but usually just stick to the rock. And a couple times a year I do large multi-day climbing trips into the back of beyond. My ideal pack can be overloaded and still haul comfortably, then stripped down and compressed for multi-pitch rock or a fun summit grab. If its got an internal frame, it better be removable, flexible enough to move with me, or both. It also needs to be durable enough to be hauled up the rock.

Those are the must-haves. I have preferences for good ventilation on the suspension system b/c I sweat like no one's business. I also like side zip access - I think that's pretty genius. Roll tops kind of annoy me because the one's I have experienced don't hug EXACTLY the volume you're trying to contain, but I imagine there are ways around that.

I'll also be tagging along for a few days with family on the CO trail at the end of summer. (But don't get me wrong, the pack I'm looking for should excel on rock and be capable of low-end alpine, but just needs to be manageable for a few days of backpacking since I don't do that enough to justify a special pack)

I really like the reputation behind CCW and Wild Things, but have never tried their gear (though I have friends that swear by them). I tried on the new Mammut Trion Guide the other day and liked it a lot, but wanted the MP community's advice first. I also realize that a good pack for multiple uses can get higher in cost - but as long as I can get those multiple uses out if it, I consider it worth the added cost. Any suggestions?

Vaughn · · Colorado · Joined Mar 2011 · Points: 55

The Deuter Guide 45+ pretty much exactly fits what you describe. I love mine.

Tim Stich · · Colorado Springs, Colorado · Joined Jan 2001 · Points: 1,520

I think an alpine pack is going to be a whole lot smaller than a cragging pack. I prefer about a 35 liter pack for alpine, and that is only to accomodate a large jacket for being warm while resting. I love a huge pack for cragging so I can fit rope, full double rack, and lots of food with a good suspension. But definitely, the 45 liter size pack could do all of those things. Just underpack it for alpine.

Kai Larson · · Sandy, UT · Joined Jan 2006 · Points: 436

In my experience, any suspension with good ventilation isn't going to carry well. Ventilation requires air flow along your back. A pack that carries well will stick to you back.

Also, a crag pack needs to be burly, because you're going to abuse it. Side zip access is also good for a crag pack. Stuff like this makes them heavy.

Alpine packs need to be light, which generally means less durable, and without things like side access zippers.

If you tried on the Mammut Trion Guide and liked it, then why not get it? Fit is key, and if it fits, and has the attributes you like, you're 90%of the way there.

Alex and Kona · · Boulder, CO · Joined May 2012 · Points: 0
Stich wrote:I think an alpine pack is going to be a whole lot smaller than a cragging pack. I prefer about a 35 liter pack for alpine, and that is only to accomodate a large jacket for being warm while resting. I love a huge pack for cragging so I can fit rope, full double rack, and lots of food with a good suspension. But definitely, the 45 liter size pack could do all of those things. Just underpack it for alpine.
That's a very good point. I never feel the need to fill ALL the space available to me, so 45L still seems like a great bet, it just needs an excellent compression system.

As far as the Deuter Guide 45+: I've heard good things; it was actually the recommendation of the guy that taught me to climb. The added loop attachment points on the top of the brain seem brilliant, and unique from the Mammut Trion Guide 45+7. I think I'll put the Deuter on my list to try on... Now I just have to find where - any Boulderites know?
Alex and Kona · · Boulder, CO · Joined May 2012 · Points: 0
Kai Larson wrote:In my experience, any suspension with good ventilation isn't going to carry well. Ventilation requires air flow along your back. A pack that carries well will stick to you back. Also, a crag pack needs to be burly, because you're going to abuse it. Side zip access is also good for a crag pack. Stuff like this makes them heavy. Alpine packs need to be light, which generally means less durable, and without things like side access zippers. If you tried on the Mammut Trion Guide and liked it, then why not get it? Fit is key, and if it fits, and has the attributes you like, you're 90%of the way there.
I understand that logically, these things are contradictory. But good companies keep turning out new and innovative things so why not reach for the stars. I'll keep in mind that each of the attributes I listed often involve trade-offs. If it turns out I can't have everything I want, I'll just go with the best of my options, or start my own pack company.

Thanks for the input!

Thanks for the input!
Vaughn · · Colorado · Joined Mar 2011 · Points: 55
Alex and Kona wrote: I think I'll put the Deuter on my list to try on... Now I just have to find where - any Boulderites know?
Go to Neptune Mountaineering. They'll have other packs you can try too.
Joe "Big Boi" Osterman · · Portland, OR · Joined Jun 2012 · Points: 155

I recently traded in my Osprey Talon for a Black Diamond Epic 45 and I am very satisfied. It has all the features you want in a climbing pack and none of the frills. It is a top load only but if you don't mind digging through your pack at the crag it is definitely a work horse of a pack. Also, its made for alpine ascents and has all the features you want there; dual axe carrier, crampon carrier, rope strap, removable hip belt, etc. And the suspension is super solid and has the ball joint hip belt which really moves with you. I am super satisfied with this pack and would recommend it to anyone. Hope this helps. Also it comes in sweet colors and has a reflective logo for approaches in the dark.

Joe "Big Boi" Osterman · · Portland, OR · Joined Jun 2012 · Points: 155

Also, it has haul loops.

Auto-X Fil · · NEPA and Upper Jay, NY · Joined Aug 2010 · Points: 50

The Cilogear 40L packs will do what you want. They carry big loads well, and strip/compress down to nothing.

I own a 30L and a 45L, but one of the 40s could do it all without issue.

Pete Spri · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jun 2009 · Points: 347

Personally, I think it's best to have 2 packs.

I like a day pack + an overnighter. If you are into any over-night tripping, you'll probably want 2 at some point. If you get a bigger one first you could still use it for day trips.

Personally, I love my set up of the Cold Cold World Ozone for day trips + my CCW Chernobyl (although I would maybe consider one size up from the Chernobyl for 3+ days out).

Alex and Kona · · Boulder, CO · Joined May 2012 · Points: 0

Thanks for directing me to Neptune Mountaineering. I was able to try on the Mammut Trion Guide 45+7 and the Deuter Guide 45+. They're remarkably similar packs: great compression system, comfortable suspension system when over-loaded, removable aluminum frame, side zip access to the main top-loaded compartment, bladder-bag slot, gear loops on the waist strap, daisy chains on the exterior, ice ax retention, nearly waterproof, and really burly.

My money went toward the Mammut for pretty much this reason alone: I had a significantly better range of motion with the Mammut - reaching, bending, twisting - the Mammut moved with me better than the Deuter.

The Mammut also has a front pocket where the Deuter does not, the Mammut is lighter by nearly a pound, gear loops on the inside of the main compartment, and has a nifty strap and buckle under the lid to secure a rope (trivial, I know). The Deuter has a set of plastic D-rings sewn to the top of the lid where you could thread compression straps to affix a ground pad, sleeping bag, or whatever - which was a very cool idea. The Dueter also has a zipper-access directly to the bottom of the main compartment and a flap next to it so you can section off that space (ie-compartmentalize your main pocket). Those were the notable differences.

All in all - both exceptional packs, but Mammut hit my needs better than Deuter by a small margin. Unfortunately, the Mammut is more expensive by about $20.

Thanks for everyone's help and input.

Karsten Delap · · North Carolina · Joined May 2006 · Points: 403

Deuter Guide 35 or 45. Best packs ever!!!

www.karstendelap.com

bearbreeder · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2009 · Points: 3,065

whatever fits yr back, is reasonably priced and durable, and has the features you want ...

did i mention that it MUST fit yr back ... it doesnt matter how many MPer recommend something over the intraweb if it doesnt fit you ... a poor fitting pack will be a issue for those long alpine days ...

go out and try it all on ....

Ed Rhine · · Denver, CO · Joined Jan 2006 · Points: 0

It seems pretty hard to find a pack that will actually fit all the things you want, so I would focus on size and fit. I can use something about 55L to get in enough gear for a 4+ day alpine climb and still works for a trip to the crags. It would be way to big for multi-pitch, but unless you are doing MP in an alpine environment where you need a lot of extra gear, I would suggest a small camelback type pack or bullet pack for that. Overall take a look at size and see what packs fit you the best. I have owned Osprey, BD, Mammut, and Dueter and they all work well, just depends on what fits your body. Overall I personally shy away from bells and whistles and like clean design to save weight. Check out Neptune, Bent Gate in Golden and my personal fav... Wilderness Exchange in Denver. Good Luck

Ryan Kuehn · · South Lake Tahoe, CA · Joined Oct 2011 · Points: 5

Jaren,
What all can you fit into the 35L alpinisto? I was able to see the new version that is coming out in the fall and it looks sweet so I was thinking of maybe updating my pack then but can't decide whether to go 35L or 50L.

a d · · Los Angeles, CA · Joined Mar 2010 · Points: 5

Osprey packs have both great suspension and total airflow. Check em out. I've had mine for a while and it's been great.

Sam M · · Austin, TX · Joined Jun 2012 · Points: 0

I use the mountain hardware diretissima(the large ends up at 49 liters with the brain on, small is 40). I have been through TONS of packs and stopped at this one for climbing in general. It has all the features I realized I wanted: a big space to store gear in, super rugged but super lightweight(it strips down to 1.5 lbs WITH a wire frame still after plastic sheet is out. Brain is removable and it converts into a still waterproof roll top. Hip belt removable and comes with Ul one.) Great compression, ice tool mounting systems that hold anything. The material where crampons might be is so bomber. Almost like a roughed up patent leather. Stowable compression straps. RATED HAUL LOOPS. And a lovely daisy chain right down the center. Not enough packs have daisy chains anymore iMO. Snow shovel pocket. Will fit certain ones only I have discovered but I use it as a wet store. Has biner loops on the waist belt!!! Hydration pocket or just long pocket. Awesome design. Truly a minimal alpinists tool box.
This carries big loads well. I'm talking three days in the back country with a trad rack. You must pack it correctly though, as with all packs.
Sorry for a review that was all over the place, just called it as it popped in my head.

Wiled Horse · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2002 · Points: 3,669

Vaude hard rock if you can find them. Or maybe they don't make them anymore. The helmet strap is useless and buckle broke first time and I cut the rest of it off but other than that its a decent pack. Good luck finding anything durable enough to haul that is comfortable.

Chris Owen · · Big Bear Lake · Joined Jan 2002 · Points: 11,617

I have a Cold Cold World Valdez, had it forever and it has everything I need for an all-rounder; holds 2 axes, a pair of crampons, has an extendable sleeve for unplanned bivis, has side straps fro skis or poles, two top zipper compartments, one inside one on top, removable closed cell foam pad for sitting on at camp or the unplanned bivi (no I'm not obsessed).

Nothing fancy though just authentically apt.

Sam M · · Austin, TX · Joined Jun 2012 · Points: 0
Darren Mabe wrote: Good luck finding anything durable enough to haul that is comfortable.
My direttissima is comfy, SUPER durable, and has haul loops. With the summit hipbelt attached its a breeze to haul, even drag up slab.
Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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