Maple Canyon guidebook - Pegg or Knezeks?

Thank you!

Got the Knezek book in the mail yesterday....no comparison how much better it is. The history section's alone make it a better purchase, let alone the much more comprehensive layout. The wolverine guide is a cliff note version, this is the real deal.

T_jones wrote:Got the Knezek book in the mail yesterday....no comparison how much better it is. The history section's alone make it a better purchase, let alone the much more comprehensive layout. The wolverine guide is a cliff note version, this is the real deal.

Does the DK guide have any additional areas/walls (in Maple Canyon)? I have the Wolverine guide and it says it has more than 400 (I did not count). The DK guide website says it has more than 550 (in Maple) + those non Maple areas. TJones...are there really 150+ more Maple routes in the DK guide?

Mike, I didn't count but yeah there are way more routes. The book is twice as thick

Mike Bond wrote: Does the DK guide have any additional areas/walls (in Maple Canyon)? I have the Wolverine guide and it says it has more than 400 (I did not count). The DK guide website says it has more than 550 (in Maple) + those non Maple areas. TJones...are there really 150+ more Maple routes in the DK guide?

Yes, the the Knezek book has a lot more routes just for Maple, even if you don't count the surrounding areas. Not only does it have more routes, the descriptions are way better. I just read the Pegg book again and couldn't believe how many "name unknown" routes it had. Also, the accuracy on some of the names was questionable. Very glad I waited for Knezek's book. It is made by the guys who made Maple.

Knezeks FTW although there seems to be a shit ton of down grading when compared to the Pegg.

GenePaul wrote:although there seems to be a shit ton of down grading when compared to the Pegg.

... which is actually explained nicely in the guidebook.

Just got mine in the mail yesterday. It's great!

Have to thank the Kzenek guidebook for directing us to The Willy Wall, a place filled with supposedly 2 and 3 star routes that were almost universally terrible squeeze jobs.

In particular, Willy on a Stick (3/3 stars) stood out as the chossiest route I've ever seen. One of my partners pulled off a fist sized cobble which exploded in his face, and golf-ball sized rocks were raining down the entire time we were on the route.

I realize Maple is known for this, but it was exceptionally bad at this wall. The description for a three star route is "perfect climbing on perfect rock." Huh?

I have to say, it may be comprehensive, but the Kzenek guidebook steered us wrong every time we ventured away from the commonly visited crags. It gave the lovely Blunt Arete and Bicycle Man 1 star each while giving their terrible, awkward neighbors 245N and Ted 3 stars. I don't care about the grades--but these guys have a weird idea of what makes a good route. Painfully bad movement and fractured rock is apparently what they enjoy. Glad I was just borrowing the guide--definitely not worth your money in my opinion.

Hey Toby,
Thanks for the warning. You will want to avoid the Early bird wall as well. Sounds a lot like the wall you checked out.
As a word of caution, all newer walls and rarely climbed climbs in Maple can be death traps if you do not tread carefully, stick clip 1-2 bolts to prevent a grounder and keep your belayer out of the fall zone (and your dog). With traffic, routes do clean up to sometimes be worthy of 2-3 stars.

I second that. Minimum crag for the first season or so would frequently rain bowling balls. How many stars does that crag tally now? All the new crags will clean up - this is how it goes with the conglomerate sandstone there.

Downgrading was inevitable. Maple's notoriety for soft grades is not unfounded. Knezek decided to rectify that it seems.

PT

Both the Wolverine and Darren books downrated climbs. IMO, the Wolverine guide might have been a bit more consistent in the downrating with some research on 8a to find some consensus on grades. Some routes that were not down-rated by Darren include Millenuim at 14a, which as consistently been rated 13d by 80-90% of those sending. T-rex at 14b (most say 14a).

Hey Toby, before you give the guide back to your friend read pages 168/169, especially rule 96 and the last paragraph of Naming the Route.
As Pain train says things will get better, Minimum was just as bad when first done. Maybe just stick to the common crags for at least another 3 years or buy Pegg's crowded classic's guide.

Toby B wrote:Have to thank the Kzenek guidebook for directing us to The Willy Wall, a place filled with supposedly 2 and 3 star routes that were almost universally terrible squeeze jobs. In particular, Willy on a Stick (3/3 stars) stood out as the chossiest route....

The DK guide is clearly superior when referring to detail/accuracy. I have both guides and like the Wolverine layout better for some reason, but the DK guide clearly has WAYYYY more info.

I checked out Lou's Tavern and Willy Wall for the first time. Both have poorly defined trails and are still "cleaning up" but both are quite good. I did not do Willy on a Stick or Pleasure to Burn at Willy, but the rest of the routes were pretty clean!

If you are only going for a few days or a week or so for one trip, the Wolverine guide is MORE than fine to tour the classics. If you want to have the complete view, the DK guide is the way to go.

The DK guide is FAR from perfect, but it has a TON of info. We got spit out of Maple by pouring rain one day this trip and tried to find Ax Handle Canyon...despite 4 different readers of the DK directions...we never found it!

Luckily, we got to climb at Maple after the storm cleared.

When it is cooler...I look forward to climbing at Early Bird Wall. Looks rad...I'll be sure to help clean it up!

Wiper Wall was quite busy this weekend. Is it the NEW/Next Minimum? I think so.

Maple is awesome!