Is $33,000 enough to live in Denver?

Oh man, 33k for engineers... I'm going to be hosed when I'm done with my masters with even more debt. But still, it's definitely livable here... even comfy on student loans.

The big thing about Denver compared to other cities that don't suck: RENT IS CHEAP. You can live in an apt Cap Hill / Cheeseman / other parts close to downtown for under 600 / month with roomies. Don't live east of Denver... it's lame and further from mountains. But if you want a yard & garage try Wash Park or Wheat Ridge. I may have a few leads on housing... shoot me a message if you want.

Also check out padmapper.com/ it makes looking for housing a lot easier.

GOOD LUCK!

If my wife gets a job we should be able to afford $1000 a month, but otherwise we'll be looking at $600, hopefully without roommates.

As far as I know, working for the Feds counts as public interest work and should entitle to you to loan forgiveness. That would mean making the minimum loan payments for 20 years and assuming you work those 20 years in the public sector, they forgive the difference at the end of the 20 years.

It's actually 10 years (120 qualifying payments). The only issue, which no one knows yet due to the novelty of the program, is what are the tax implications at the time of forgiveness.

While the salary isn't that great, the benefits are likely great, which you need to consider in calculating the value of the compensation package. You may be able to get a private sector job that pays an additional $10k, but the employer may have crappy benefits, e.g. expensive or non-existent health insurance.

sweagan wrote: I'd kill to climb as well as you do, well not kill, but you know. . . anything but work hard!

Hahah... ya unfortunately that's the only thing that will get ya up the grade ladder.

My wife and I have supported a child and own our own house in Westminster on under $40k the last two years. I wouldn't say it was fun but it's definitely do able. No child helps out quite a bit as would income from your spouse. Our situation was temporary (a couple years) and we'll be making more than double that starting in the Fall but it's doable for a while.

sweagan wrote:If my wife gets a job we should be able to afford $1000 a month, but otherwise we'll be looking at $600, hopefully without roommates.

This, plus you want to be close to downtown means your best bet at first will be Capitol Hill, maybe something in the Highlands if you can get lucky. Start out at CH with a 6 month lease, then figure out where to from there. But you can get part of a house (they sectioned a lot of them off into dwellings) w/out roommates

Don't have any advice, just wishing you good luck man!

Thanks all for the advice. I certainly won't turn down the offer if its the only one I get. I'm sure I'll get by with this pay but not ahead.

wow. 33k. that's pretty brutal. i dated a girl who was a GS-5 (doing GIS work) almost 15 years ago and that's about what she started at. we just picked up 3 kids (1 ME, 1 CE, 1 math guru) for about $60 a pop. that being said, we've worked with them in the past a bit and knew they will be worth it.

tzilla has some good points, in the fed system engineers generally jump pretty quickly to more reasonable salaries. so, maybe it could work out.

jarthur had some good points also, although i don't really agree that an MS is more valuable than a PE license, particularly for civil or structural. the firm i work for pretty much wouldn't consider a person without their PE, unless they aren't applicable to take it yet. we did just pick up a gal with an MS in math, but we knew from working with her before that she would be useful, although we are somewhat limited in how we can use her.

my advice, if you do take the job and it seems like it is going nowhere, do your best to find somebody who is a superstar and try to get under their wing. if you are lucky, maybe you will work with some private consultants/contractors/whatever and you will meet someone who has "it".

this, without any doubt, is how i got to where i am today. i was fortunate enough to work on a project early in my career with a Michael Jordan sort of guy. an old field guy pointed out to me that it was an opportunity of a lifetime. i busted my ass ruthlessly to prove to him that he could count on me. after that, whatever company he went to, he took his wingmen. and now, we all work at the best company on earth. i'm a lifer. i can't imagine working anywhere else.

keep an eye out for opportunities!

+ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^
He knows the skinny

Yea you can live on $33K. As others have noted; it is outflow not inflow that counts.

As for other unsolicited advice. The most important thing is to get your foot in the door. After a couple of years you’ll have more marketable skills and contacts, and other options will be available. The experience is key – my company often has open positions that are not filled because a person with the right experience is not available. Also, get your PE. FWIW I’ve worked in the Denver area in the CE field for 28 years.

I would recommend healthcare. Your wife can get a cna cert which is free at some community colleges nice steady income. U can have a flexible schedule too or do home care.

Civil Engineer here. From my view of the current job market, no first year should be working for 33k, but that's considering what's available in the private sector, I know its not a great time to be job hunting, but trust me, there are jobs out there.

I know my old company was still offering about 50k to 1st years.

Fortunately this job offer was upsetting enough for my Coworkers that they have started looking around and talking with friends and family, looks like I may be able to line something in an Engineering Direction for better pay! God Blessed the Eastside!!!

The Job in Denver would be great, especially if it was in Bishop. But between not being excited to live in a big city again and feeling under-valued by the supervisor I'm not in a big hurry to accept this offer.

I am a CE working for the feds, actually classed as an Env. Eng, but same/same my degree is CE with an Env Eng specialty track.

Assuming your offer for the fed position is actually a GS-08xx engineering series (810 is CE, 801 is gen eng, 819 env eng, etc), then you should be starting at at least GS-7, probably a GS-9. The promotion potential for the job should be at least GS-11, possibly GS-12. That said, at 33k in Denver it looks like a GS-5 to me...which is why I question whether the position is actually a 08xx engineering series, and not an engineering technician position.

In any case, when you take these positions, you rapidly move to the highest promotion potential, as well as receive "step" increases within your grade (assuming you're not a complete moron and do your job). So let's say you start at GS-7 with a promo potential of GS-11. After one year, you'd get a bump to GS-9 without having to compete, another year and you'd go to GS-11. Every year for the first 4, you'd get a "step" increase where you'd move up within your grade, then from step 5 up, every two years. They also typically bump the entire GS scale up with a cost of living adjustment every year, but we haven't had one for the last two because our President put a freeze on it.

Sucks for me, because I'm already at full promo potential for my job (and took a lower max potential job than my prior one, so I'm also "stepped out", i.e. I'm at step 10). So the only way I get a raise is cost of living adj to the GS scale, or go take another job somewhere.

You won't be negotiating a higher start, but you will move up the pay scale rapidly. Benefits are VERY good. Definied benefit pensions are rare these days, and while the fed system isn't as generous as the states (I worked for State of Calif at one point, which had 2%/yr of service at 55, where FERS is 1% at 62).

Cheap Med and dental ins, 401k matching up to 5%, I work a 9/80 and have every other Fri off, get 10 paid holidays per year. You'd earn 4 hrs sick leave per pay period (every 2 weeks) and 4 hrs annual leave per pay period until the 5 yr mark when you start earning 6hrs, then at 15yrs, 8 hrs. At 6hrs, that's essentially 4 weeks paid...try getting that in the private sector.

In the lower grades (below 12 or so), engineers also get a bump over the regular GS rates.

Feel free to hit me up offline if you have questions.

Many days I hate it, bureacracy sucks, but the 40 hrs weeks and generous benefits is worth it. Good luck to you.

I would take the job based on those facts but you should be starting as a GS-7 for around $45K. Every civil I know who works for the gov has started here. If they are even remotely competent they are a GS-11 within 3 years making ~$70K.

Also your masters is worthless compared to a PE as a civil. If you look at the job market right now typical job say 8-10 with a PE required. They don't ask for a masters. Can you learn a lot in school? Sure. The PE is more important. You cannot become a manager where I work or a senior guy without it. If you work for a DOT and want to become a 13 (I believe that it is the grade) it is required.

Good luck.

^^^^^
A masters is not worthless if you want to work in the environmental sector. It is generally considered standard for civil engineers who wish to do environmental work. It also counts half time towards your PE. So without working a day your already a year closer to being licensed than those just graduating with a BSCE.

As per advice, I would not listen to all the nay sayers insisting you take the 1st job your offered. I recently graduated with my masters (BSCE and MSEE), and while i wouldn't say I could have had any job I wanted. I definitely was able to choose from a handful of offers.

Full disclosure: I live in Alabama and have no clue how the market compares with Denver.

With whatever you decide, good luck!

I suppose it is all opinion on the Masters vs PE. I really don't know any civils that have one who aren't into heavy structures. None of the environmental engineers we consult that I know of have a masters, most have the PE.

You spend 2-3 years on a masters and get one year of credit on the PE. If you went to work you would be way closer to your PE.

I know many people who blame a lot of organizations (MSE, ASCE, the Unis, etc) for pushing the whole masters thing. It is really not needed in most civil work to be honest. They want more money to go to their causes and push it. In the next ten years it will be a requirement to sit for the PE unfortunately. If I went to get my masters it literally would do nothing for me in my chosen line of work.

I shouldn't have said a masters is worthless but really go on Monster or wherever and tell me what they are looking for, masters degree or PE, it will be PE hands down.

I got a masters for two reasons: no jobs after I returned from Peace Corps and a crappy GPA due to lack of interest in a lot of civil engineering classes (highway design, geotechnical, structural) and to build on my interest in water and policy. I don't think I'm a hotshot enginerd, but I have a lot of skills and interests most engineers do not have like a friendly nature, interest in policy, ability to write a legible sentence, an understanding of politics and law and how it affects engineering projects, ability to get dirty, respect towards technicians and maintenance workers (they know how to make stuff work!). These qualities may not make for the best enginerd, but they should have been attributes that would allow me to excel at the Denver job.

This may sound jerkish but you should have an attitude that you are the shit. That is how the most successful people in the world succeed. Know you have the skills, prove you can apply the skills, and show your boss and clients that you are indeed the shit. People I work with that have been engineer 1 or 2 for 5+ years are at that level because they do not have the drive and the attitude to succeed.

If you can swing the cost of living I say go for it. I would try to find out about the GS-5 vs GS-7 thing though. You really should be a 7.