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Unfortunate Accident

Original Post
Ice4life · · US · Joined Nov 2010 · Points: 330
ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=206737…

Very sad accident...
FrankPS · · Atascadero, CA · Joined Nov 2009 · Points: 276

Did you know the guy? If so, my condolences. Sad, indeed, but the article is vague. The gist of it is, "Unidentified person falls to his death." Not much to be gleaned or learned from this.

BurtMachlan · · Unknown Hometown · Joined May 2012 · Points: 0

Sounds like a hiker fell of a cliff and died. Sad he died young but why does this need to be posted on here? Its not like car wrecks or other deaths that have no relation to climbing get posted....

Josh Wood · · NYC · Joined Apr 2012 · Points: 120

True, it was a tragedy. I also noticed that the article says he was free soloing. Doesn't really touch my heart.

Jake M · · Reno, NV · Joined Mar 2012 · Points: 16

”Utah County Sgt. Eldon Packer said the man, a 22-year-old from Nevada, was climbing without a rope with a group of friends when he fell.”

Not quite sure what you mean by, 'no relation to climbing' or 'it sounds like a hiker fell off a cliff.' Really sad for the family, and friends who witnessed it happen.

BurtMachlan · · Unknown Hometown · Joined May 2012 · Points: 0
Jake M wrote:”Utah County Sgt. Eldon Packer said the man, a 22-year-old from Nevada, was climbing without a rope with a group of friends when he fell.” Not quite sure what you mean by, 'no relation to climbing' or 'it sounds like a hiker fell off a cliff.' Really sad for the family, and friends who witnessed it happen.
Uhh because to me it sounds this guy and his buddies were out hiking and decided to scramble up some rocks. I guess he was "freesoling" but I doubt he had any idea thats what its called and doubt he was really a "climber" at all. The newspaper always cites "climbing without a rope" any time a hiker falls off a cliff... which is what this sounds like.
Tradiban · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2004 · Points: 11,610

Another example of the media demonizing climbing. This guy was was dicking around and got in over his head. It's this kind of thing that turns the general public against climbers and climbing access.

Sure, it's sad but I have much more sympathy for people who starve to death.

sarcasm · · Unknown Hometown · Joined May 2010 · Points: 445
BurtMachlan wrote: Uhh because to me it sounds this guy and his buddies were out hiking and decided to scramble up some rocks. I guess he was "freesoling" but I doubt he had any idea thats what its called and doubt he was really a "climber" at all. The newspaper always cites "climbing without a rope" any time a hiker falls off a cliff... which is what this sounds like.
No, actually this sounds like someone was free soloing. Probably emulating Alex Honnold or whoever else is soloing this week on tv.
BurtMachlan · · Unknown Hometown · Joined May 2012 · Points: 0
drmartindell wrote: No, actually this sounds like someone was free soloing. Probably emulating Alex Honnold or whoever else is soloing this week on tv.
Yeah he was technically free soloing but ask him or any of his buddies what "free soloing" is and I bet they have no idea. Sounds like a college student who was out hiking and thought it woudl be a good idea to do some rock climbing and didn't think they needed a rope.

Or you can be a moron and believe some 60 minutes episode that aired months ago made him do this.... Riiiiight. Hope you arent an actual Doctor, although common sense is usually not a doctors strongest point....
russelljus · · Park City, UT · Joined Jul 2010 · Points: 40

This doesn't make things any better...

ksl.com/index.php?nid=148&s…

Greg D · · Here · Joined Apr 2006 · Points: 883

The posts above are some of the most insensitive and ignorant I've seen. But, they will not get deleted. But, what I'm about to say is more likely to get deleted because of the honest and non pc format I choose.

Frankly, who gives a shit if this guy knows what "free solo" means. Who cares if he was hiking, scrambling, climbing or what ever definition you like to give it. He was on some rock, slipped and died. Offer your condolences or stfu.

Do you really think some journalist calling this guy a climber has any thing to do with access or this is an appropriate forum to mention that. That's just plain retarded. And have you done anything to improve access to anywhere ever? Climbers die every year in Eldorado Canyon. Yet, access is completely uninhibited except for an endangered bird area. Access gets threatened by climbers (those that know the term "free solo") that leave trash, damage plants, leave chalk, human waste, bolts and much more. But, I'm not familiar with an area getting shut down because of deaths. Strange, huh.

So, may I suggest you do us all a favor and return your stick clip and matching hydrophobic pants to REI and offer up some condolences to this guy's family and friends and don't turn this into your "access" or "he wasn't a climber" or "he was scrambling" or "media inaccuracy" bullshit.

Joe Huggins · · Grand Junction · Joined Oct 2001 · Points: 105
Greg D wrote:The posts above are some of the most insensitive and ignorant I've seen. But, they will not get deleted. But, what I'm about to say is more likely to get deleted because of the honest and non pc format I choose. Frankly, who gives a shit if this guy knows what "free solo" means. EDITED FOR SPACE pants to REI and offer up some condolences to this guy's family and friends and don't turn this into your "access" or "he wasn't a climber" or "he was scrambling" or "media inaccuracy" bullshit.
That was good.
paintrain · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jan 2007 · Points: 75

People get killed and it is sad. Condolences all around.

Access is an issue though and one that can be affected by accidents and the perception of who seems to be the causitive agents in rescues and body recoveries.

I won't disagree that some of the statements above are insensitive, but i also won't agree that access isn't at issue. My home crag was shut down because of a fatality (private land). It does become important to differentiate user groups as land managers are different at every area and their perceptions can be influenced by what user group is giving them problems.

Pt

Greg D · · Here · Joined Apr 2006 · Points: 883
paintrain wrote:People get killed and it is sad. Condolences all around. Access is an issue though and one that can be affected by accidents and the perception of who seems to be the causitive agents in rescues and body recoveries. I won't disagree that some of the statements above are insensitive, but i also won't agree that access isn't at issue. My home crag was shut down because of a fatality (private land). It does become important to differentiate user groups as land managers are different at every area and their perceptions can be influenced by what user group is giving them problems. Pt
The fact that you mention pg13 and tr in the same sentence in a recent post tells me you should head to REI also.
Tim Stich · · Colorado Springs, Colorado · Joined Jan 2001 · Points: 1,520
Greg D wrote: The fact that you mention pg13 and tr in the same sentence in a recent post tells me you should head to REI also.
You must be referencing some other conversation here.

Anyway, I agree with what you said, Greg. This horse gets beaten to death almost as quickly as the victim does sometimes. Maybe we will simply just find out more information about the accident and hopefully hear from some friends of the guy and go from there. Very sorry to hear about this.
Allen Sanderson · · On the road to perdition · Joined Jul 2007 · Points: 1,203

Having dealt with similar situations there are many aspects. First it is always a bummer when some one dies. I personally do not feel a need to offer condolences as I did not know the victim nor anyone with ties to them.

Second, victim like all of us did something dumb. We all do dumb things. Most of the time we get away with it, sometimes we do not. When we do not the consequences are often deadly and get put down under Dawin.

Now the reporting is not very good. But the reporter was well, reporting what they were told via the sheriff's deputy. The deputy really did not describe what happened very well. Quite simply he should have said;

"The victim was hiking with friends and decided to scramble up the rocks next to the falls without any of the proper gear and consequently fell to their death"

The titles of the story would have been best had it been - "Hiker scrambling off trail dies in fall"

If folks want to have an impact on the reporting give the sheriff's office a call. And ask them to distinguish between hikers and climbers. If they have technical gear they are a climbers - it not hikers. And when hikers do not use the word climb in their statement. That would solve a huge number of the cases with poor reporting.

Now what are consequences ? There can be impacts on access. Just look at Denali. Most often though on private land. That said the public land managers along the Wasatch front are used to people doing dumb things and tend to roll with it. The same for private land - especially the Gate Buttress where there have been at least climber 4 deaths, and way more injuries in the past 15 years.

M. C. · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2012 · Points: 0

I don't get it. What makes some of you assume automatically that it's a guy who doesn't know anything about climbing, and is just a "dumb hiker" who tried to free solo without even knowing the definition?

Are you saying college students who have friends, i.e. like the guy who died, can never free solo? Very odd assumption if so.

And, disrespectful of the dead. Poor taste in my view.

BurtMachlan · · Unknown Hometown · Joined May 2012 · Points: 0
Allen Sanderson wrote:First it is always a bummer when some one dies. I personally do not feel a need to offer condolences as I did not know the victim nor anyone with ties to them.
I agree, who exactly am I offering condolonces too???? The internet fairies? Sad someone died but sending out mental "positive vibes" is going to do nothing for him or the family. You guys can all feel better about yourselves for starting out your responses with "condolonces" though, you are all much better people now and can pat yourselves on the back.
BurtMachlan · · Unknown Hometown · Joined May 2012 · Points: 0
M. C. wrote:I don't get it. What makes some of you assume automatically that it's a guy who doesn't know anything about climbing, and is just a "dumb hiker" who tried to free solo without even knowing the definition?
Because it sounds like he was hiking and decided to scramble up some chossy cliff non vertical cliff band which he fell off of. Most climbers I know would not do that. They would either use ropes or go free solo an actual route.... Its pretty obvious, even from the poorly written article, that the guy knew nothing about rock climbing. Thats not a knock on him as there is nothing wrong with not knowing anythign about climbing, just an observation...

And please explain to me how its disrespectful of the dead to suggest they do not know anything about climbing??? Especially since it sounds like he wasn't a climber.... I wouldnt be offended if someone said I knew nothing about quantam mechaincs, its just a fact I know nothing about it.
Woolymammoth · · Unknown Hometown · Joined May 2012 · Points: 0

It is very sad he died. I don't think anyone really thinks otherwise. It has been stated above, but the media should differentiate between a climber & hiker, or some young kids playing around. Just because he is 'touching rock' does not make him a climber, & by the media lumping it all together creates a certain irresponsible idea of all climbers. & if he was mimicking, say, Alex Honnold, well, that was his irresponsible choice. Not Alex's, not the Television set. His, & his alone. But i don't think that was the case. Most likely he didn't even know who Honnold was...

Tradiban · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2004 · Points: 11,610

What a bunch of white people problems. Am I supposed to cry everytime someone tumbles off a cliff? A person probably dies in the third world every second because they don't have enough to eat, or the step on a land mine, etc. How about offering them condolences? You would have to mutter the word every second or more to keep up. So, unless you directly know the person or family your condolences are strictly self serving.

YES, this mis-reporting effects us as climbers. Every non-climber I meet thinks I've got some sort of death wish. YES, a local crag was shut down because drunk teenagers liked to fall off it. You can still hike up to the top of it but you can't climb it, go figure. YES, call the newspaper and note that this person was not a climber. It worked for us locally, the press changed their tone.

Look, I'm sure he was a great guy (everyone is posthumously) but this is a minor tradegy compared to the atrocites occuring around the world and in the contect of this forum I think it's perfectly appropriate to point out that he was not a climber and not using the equipment and techniques most of us all use to prevent accidents like this.

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

Northern Utah & Idaho
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