Central Connecticut Traprock

This question is directed to the Central Connecticut Traprock climbing community, regarding the various open climbing areas.

Has there been any movement or inertia lately regarding the replacement of the previously removed historic, fixed protection, i.e. original bolts and pitons that existed prior to the year 2001, as initially placed by the first ascentionists?

This question does not pertain to sport climbing or grid bolting the cliffs of Central Connecticut. It does however, question the viability of opening up many fine routes to be led, which are presently and repeatedly toproped, due to the extreme run-out nature caused by this earlier removal effort. Such routes in question, if now led, would result in very serious R ratings and X ratings.

I am aware that the Ragged Mountain Foundation does not allow for new bolts or fixed protection. I am also aware of the extreme traditional ethic, as part of the Connecticut climbing culture and I personally applaud this ethic. However, prior to the year 2001, this extreme traditional ethic did allow for the historic fixed protection to remain and exist.

Does the R.M.F. make exceptions for the replacement historic fixed protection at the Ragged Mountain Main Cliff?

There does seem to be usual reasonable arguments for restoring this fixed protection, i.e. preserving the cliff-top environment, negating the need for hundreds of feet of static anchor rope and not to mention the enjoyment of safer mixed trad routes climbed and led in the same bold spirit of the first ascentionists. I believe there have been accidents in the past from leaders expecting fixed protection, where fixed protection was removed.

In any event, this discussion does not advocate sport climbing or the installation of new bolts to the established routes in Central Connecticut. This discussion questions the possibility of replacing the previously, "chopped", "damaged" or "removed" fixed protection, that previously existed on many original mixed trad routes.

What are your thoughts. Thank you.

AB

Previously placed fixed protection can be maintained according to the RMF agreement with the Conservancy.

"3.6 The right to take action necessary to prevent the erosion of any slope on the Protected Property, and to protect public health and safety, including the replacement of bolts previously placed on the climbing routes located on the Protected Property."

You're best bet is to contact the RMF president Brien Roscetti to discuss.

I have recently corresponded with the RMF about the fixed anchor/cliff top preservation issues and as I have been told by Brien, the RMF does have the ability, as stated above to replace those older pieces of gear and even for preservation purposes, to install new anchors on the cliff top. They have however, not done any of these things (for the most part) due to the perceived threat of entering into another 'bolt war' with some individuals in the community. Unfortunately, though Ken Nichols has basically had his balls cut off by the State of Massachusetts with their finding against him in the Farley incident, there still exists a group who is likely to step up to his level of ignorance and vandalize the cliff and any restoration effors. you never know till you ask really...

I agree with putting some pressure behind the ball on this one and attempt to get things moving. Are there some routes that you are looking to do at Ragged that have historical gear that's missing? If you were interested in those routes I'm sure you could make a formal request to RMF to re-install the gear or some suitable replacement and the issue would be brought, pretty quickly, to the forefront.

Let me know if you need any help.

Cheers,

Morgan

AB, Morgan, Brian,

You can replace any previously fixed hardware that was documented at the time of the property acquisition. This includes threads, pitons, bolts, etc. The caveat is that the bolts need to go in the same holes. This could be tricky as many of the old bolts are self drives. I would like to explore this more myself. Those self drives might come out with some crowbar persuasion. I firmly believe the choice in hardware specifically will be important. For what it's worth, I am willing to donate some of the hardware and elbow grease to the cause.

It is important to note that some routes, for example, Knights Gambit, Subline, and Bombay Dir. are regularly led in their current state.

It is up to you as a climber, to replace this equipment. RMF isn't in the business of re-developing routes and the BOD won't likely choose to absorb the liability or the cost of the materials. It will be important to protect the property and abide by the conservation easement that governs Ragged's Main Cliff.

There you have it...

So Matt, who holds the sacred list of fixed gear in an online/emailable format? I'd be very interested in helping as well if there was a hit list we could bang out in a day or so and open up some older routes which aren't frequented (though I don't know of any offhand). Only stuff I know are my proj's which will forever be TRs :-( but I honestly would really only be interested if it opened up old routes from the R/X arena.

AB - what routes did you have in mind?

Does this mean that Vanishing Point could get it's bolt back? That would be fantastic!...I'd chip some $$ or time in for that one.

Thank you Morgan, Matt and Brian for your responses and information. This is a good discussion.

Being a Western Massachusetts climber and having enjoyed the climbing in Central Connecticut for many years, I am aware of the stress and the history the climbing community has experienced in the past.

That said, it does seem that maybe, it may be time to take a step forward to restore the mixed/trad routes in the area, so more people can have the opportunity enjoy them in their original spirit (bold that they may be). It may be a hopeful sign that the entry pin for YMC has remain for this long.

As a personal opinion and given my particular climbing abilities, the following candidates for fixed gear replacement at the Ragged Main Face would be: Vanishing Point; Laverado Corner and Vajolet Corner amongst others. I am aware that Knight's Gambit can be presently led in a safe manner given tricky gear placements. I am sure that such restorations would be a positive contribution to the climbing community.

There are way too many routes in other open climbing areas in Central Connecticut to mention here, but again, these would also be positive contributions to the climbing community, if these too would be restored to their original conditions.

I also believe that any such action should be supported by the local climbing community. In any event, I personally would offer assistance in labor or contributions for any such a restoration effort. I believe that I can speak for many fellow Western Massachusetts climbers who would also applaud and support this effort.

AB

Consideration should be made to color any replacement fixed protection in an effort to blend.

AB

Matt - regarding Sublime, wasn't there a pin down low that used to protect a ground fall? I fell like I've heard/read about a few fuckups on the beginning which have resulted in injuries on the block below without the gear. I could be mistaken...

Maybe RMF could circulate the list with a proposed replacement list to its members for review and commentary to ensure some sort of consensus. That would unfortunately lead though to a hit list of here's all the new gear so if you want to come up and chop it, here's a road map.

AB - camo'ing is the least of the worries...

Morgan,

I can appreciate the worries you speak of...but one has to hope that evolution has taken place.

There has been recent success regarding this issue.

AB

The list isn't in digital form, but I'll put it together and send it along. Give me a bit of time; have to go to the RMF archives and double check a few things.

As far as hardware goes, IF the self drives come out easy, we should retool the hole so we can use a bolt that can be replaced. I spoke to Kevin Daniels years ago, and he sent me some FIxe Triplex. If the hole gets over drilled to the length of the bit, and the bolt gets chopped, you can remove the stud and reuse the hole, easily. The reality is that I stopped replacing hardware about 4 years ago because it always got removed or fully chopped. We should have a plan in place so that should we need to replace this hardware again, we can. Two things are going to happen: 1. stuff stays put and it's all good. or 2. we will have to replace it again. This makes glue in's and 5 pc a poor choice in my opinion. I just don't want to see a mess or make choices that creates a problem the next generation of climbers. I think we need to go about this in a well thought out manner. We might even consider only replacing some hardware just to see what happens.

Subline is regularly led without the fixed pins (they haven't been there for over 10 years, I think). Since this has become the new model, we should leave it be. Ground fall is a possibility on any route. Every route has some consequence.

Those interested should think about making the RMF annual meet and make an effort to create a plan of action. We'll need to document and photo this task for the RMF archives.

Matt Shove wrote: Subline is regularly led without the fixed pins (they haven't been there for over 10 years, I think). Since this has become the new model, we should leave it be. Ground fall is a possibility on any route. Every route has some consequence.

I think that's a fair assessment on Sublime. I was thinking that there was a fixed pin down low which is now being substituted with a pretty crapy placement that can easily blow and leave the climber on the deck.

I'm all for replacing some of the chopped hardware, but as Matt mentioned I think it would need to be a slow reintroduction. I think it'd be best to test the waters by only placing a few bolts to start in order to prevent unnecessary damage to the rock, and to prevent spending a ton of time and money if it turns out to be a lost cause. I hope it's not.

I would be more than happy to donate time and money/supplies to the efforts.

KevinF...good point and well said.

AB

Talk, talk,. . .I did replace two pins, and plan to replace several pins and bolts in the future whenever I feel the spirit move me.
Also, many routes were done without bolts on other craigs. Should they not be removed? What I did free in my 60's does not needed to be bolted by some twentysomething climber lacking in self confidence.

Albert J Carilli wrote:Talk, talk,. . .I did replace two pins, and plan to replace several pins and bolts in the future whenever I feel the spirit move me. Also, many routes were done without bolts on other craigs. Should they not be removed? What I did free in my 60's does not needed to be bolted by some twentysomething climber lacking in self confidence.

Hey Albert, thanks for your efforts on replacing the two pins. Care to elaborate on what routes these were replaced and what routes you are planning on replacing bolts, so others may enjoy them?

In any event, as stated in the previous "talk, talk...", the issue here is not about "dumbing down" the existing climbing routes in Central Connecticut to suit some twentysomething climber who lacks self confidence.

The "crux" of the discussion centers around allowing climbers of 2012 access to led routes with protection ratings that were available to the original ascentionists (bold that they may have been). This does not advocate sportclimbing or grid bolting. This means replacing the original historic fixed protection, (that even you may have used), prior to the total and widespread vandalism that occured in and about the year 2001.

The discussion also is questioning the climbing community as a whole on what present policies regarding this issue.

On a personal note, I do not support sport climbing in Central Connecticut. The traditional ethic is just fine. However, as a +50 year old climber, that has climbed many of the great mixed/trad routes, which had fixed protection prior to 2001, I find it a shame and travesty that a minority at the time has vandalized so many climbing treasures and have taken away a potential for this generation of climbers.

I am questioning the evolution of arrogance.

AB

Albert J Carilli wrote:Talk, talk,. . .I did replace two pins, and plan to replace several pins and bolts in the future whenever I feel the spirit move me. Also, many routes were done without bolts on other craigs. Should they not be removed? What I did free in my 60's does not needed to be bolted by some twentysomething climber lacking in self confidence.

Al - No where has anyone discussed adding bolts or pins to lines that previously did not have them and which were not already documented in the RMF easement. I don't know you, but I know you've had conversations or as you call it, "talk, talk" with Mike M. about replacing the fixed gear at main cliff and offered to buy the hardware to do so. I think it's a really great offer and would be greatly appreciated. I'd be glad to put in the hard labor hours...

What have you replaced in the last 10 yrs since the 2001 incident? Has any of it not been removed or vandalized at this point?

EDIT: Al I noticed you joined yesterday! Glad to have you on MP... did you join to take part in this conversation?

There will be an open forum discussion about replacing previously fixed hardware at the Ragged Mountain Main Cliff during the second half of the RMF Annual Meeting. Please attend if you have some input on this topic. I would imagine these discussion will take place at about 8:15 pm. RMF is sponsoring these discussions sure to a recent surge of interest not only here on mountain project.com, but in person, email and telephone calls. Please visit raggedmtn.org for details and directions.

from raggedmtn.org
RMF Annual Meeting - Thursday June 21st

Join us at 7:00pm at the Connecticut Forest and Parks Association headquarters, 16 Meriden Road (Rt. 66), Rockfall, CT. Pizza and refreshments will be served at 7:00 pm. The meeting will commence at 7:30pm with reports from the Treasurer and President, discussion of 2012 goals and announcement of the 2012 James Wilcox Award winner. As always we will end with a slide show, so please feel free to bring some photos highlighting your adventures from the past year.

In regards to replacing fixed protection at Ragged Mt, page 10 of Rock Climbing Connecticut (Falcon Guide) is a good reference. It lists many of the routes that had fixed protection considered essential. A little history. In 1999 I replaced the bolt and the key piton on Vanishing Point. Shortly after, the bolt and pin was again stolen and several holds were chopped on the route. After that pins were replaced on and off (start of YMC and Broadway for example), but were stolen. Also, in 1980ish the local climbers took up a collection and replaced all of the bolts at Ragged (I think I paid for the one on Vajolet Corner) - the replacement was due to aging gear and not any ethical debate. The bolts were stolen in the 1990s, but replacing all the bolts at Ragged has been done in the past. It should also be noted that pins have to be carefully placed. I believe I had to saw off the tip of the pin to get it to fit correctly in Vanishing Point. Just something to keep in mind in replacing pitons.