is the quad really necessary?

OK I see your point now. Im used to bomber stations if they are bolted here the sandstone stations in Moab and the creek were pretty solid too but nothing wrong with being on the safe side. My problem with your setup is that its too short to be versatile. What if bolts are set at different levels and far apart? What if there is a pin present and u wanna use it as a backup? Its too short. The 20ft powercord cordilette is supple strong enough and gives in a little stretch 9mm is too bulky in that length. Its mire practical to have more length of a low volume cord which you can cut and utiliz with more options. Bulk, weight, versatility and core strength all come into play here. Use the best and greatest equipment you can possibly afford to make your climbing more efficient. Well that's my motto. ....then again some may say the Manila ropes and hip belays are the way to go....

Elena Sera Jose wrote:Bulk, weight, versatility and core strength all come into play here. Use the best and greatest equipment you can possibly afford to make your climbing more efficient. Well that's my motto.

Your motto is NOT efficient.

Carrying anything, for anchors, more than the rope will decrease your efficientcy.
My anchor kit? 2 Lightweight lockers and 1 wire gate.

The only time I carry cord is if I need to leave it for rappels or if I know anchors are SUPER sketch.Even then I prefer to use the rope if possible.

I've gotten up a few things quickly in my time. I've tried alot of different methods. Anchoring witht eh rope is the way to be efficient.

josh

J. Thompson wrote: Your motto is NOT efficient. Carrying anything, for anchors, more than the rope will decrease your efficientcy. My anchor kit? 2 Lightweight lockers and 1 wire gate. The only time I carry cord is if I need to leave it for rappels or if I know anchors are SUPER sketch.Even then I prefer to use the rope if possible. I've gotten up a few things quickly in my time. I've tried alot of different methods. Anchoring witht eh rope is the way to be efficient. josh

What's your climbing experience in trad multipitch? Im leading 2 years followed 15 . Dropped rope once got stuck seconding a roof in the air and had to bail jumarring the rope, ran out of slings, had to wrap cord around a boulder to bail in a route...in all those cases the cord was my Jesus. Its compact enough to bring and adds peace of mind.
4 lockers work for me now I use 2 smaller 2 larger flat shaped ones.

Ryan Williams wrote:Does Mointain Project really need another anchor thread?

Does Ryan Williams really need to participate in another thread is a much more obvious question.

Let the guy ask his question today and get feed back from whomever is interested. What a jerk you can be despite admin status.

Elena Sera Jose wrote: What's your climbing experience in trad multipitch? Im leading 2 years followed 15 . Dropped rope once got stuck seconding a roof in the air and had to bail jumarring the rope, ran out of slings, had to wrap cord around a boulder to bail in a route...in all those cases the cord was my Jesus. Its compact enough to bring and adds peace of mind. 4 lockers work for me now I use 2 smaller 2 larger flat shaped ones.

In response to you questioning Josh:

Funny.

You are not even in the same realm with this guy. Take his advice and thank him.

Greg D wrote: In response to you questioning Josh: Funny. You are not even in the same realm with this guy. Take his advice and thank him.

I don't know Josh I would not doubt he is a very experienced solid leader and can put up 100 ft lead with 3 cams but I know me. I climbed with minimalists and with gear overloaded leaders. In my case I prefer having the cordilette and building stations using the equalized cordilette method. Im usually at 8 to 10 pieces per pitch and still learning the ways that will work best for me. Im sharing my experiences with OP that's all

Elena Sera Jose wrote: I don't know Josh I would not doubt he is a very experienced solid leader and can put up 100 ft lead with 3 cams but I know me. I climbed with minimalists and with gear overloaded leaders. In my case I prefer having the cordilette and building stations using the equalized cordilette method. Im usually at 8 to 10 pieces per pitch and still learning the ways that will work best for me. Im sharing my experiences with OP that's all

No worries. I think the cordalette is the best way to go beside using the rope.

Josh is a solid climber as well as an emt. I participated in a very serious resue and Josh saved this guys life... literally. He knows his shit.

I don't mention the falls caught on my anchor casually. I've climbed with many people, some of which I will never again. Two falls were caught on my anchor while I was belaying. Two different guys, two different senarios. One didn't have a quick enough jesus placement, foot popped and fell roughly four feet and was caught by my anchor (3 point sliding x with limiter knot). The second time, a more novice than led me to believe climber placed two pieces, peeled, and popped both of them and was then caught by my anchor (3piece equalette). I do not, by any means, take a fall on an anchor lightly. But I do now choose my climbing partners much more carefully. That shit is enough to wreck my underwear. But I agree with you guys... I'll carry my normal anchor and just stick with it and my rope. Thanks :)

Greg D wrote: Does Ryan Williams really need to participate in another thread is a much more obvious question. Let the guy ask his question today and get feed back from whomever is interested. What a jerk you can be despite admin status.

I'm not being a jerk at all. I am simply asking a serious question. If I had started my own thread and used that question as the title, I bet most of the answers would be NO, that horse died long ago.

Every time a thread about anchors gets posted, a third of the information ends up being useless nonsense and sometimes downright dangerous advice. At best, the end result is that a few wise and experienced climbers say that there is no one or two ways to build an anchor because every situation is different. Then the thread dies, we all move on, and a few weeks later the cycle is repeated.

It's nonsense. It detracts from the good material on this website. It needs to stop.

Seriously how credible do you think the 'serious ' responces are? This site is no instructional tape or a trad leading class the climbers are asking unconventional and sometimes redundant questions they get unconventional and sometimes redundant answers. The discussion is food for thought only and skills are to be practiced at the climbers own risks. As long as there's no profane disrespectful jack ass comments let the people talk. Hey even those can be entertaining. What is it about distraction? Aren't climbers supposed to be able to filter all kinds of distractions ( including boobs) to maintain safety? Common now!

On page 166 of John Long's Climbing Anchors (second edition) there is a photo of an equalette like yours, but tied in a sewn sling. one of my buddies always carries one on his rack. I feel pretty good about using it, too. It doesn't weigh very much either.

Greg D wrote: No worries. I think the cordalette is the best way to go beside using the rope. Josh is a solid climber as well as an emt. I participated in a very serious resue and Josh saved this guys life... literally. He knows his shit.

Josh also climbs in The Black on the hard stuff. He has several speed climbing records on various multi-pitch routes in places like Red Rocks, NV. He's also a fireman, not an EMT, although that's a big part of what firemen do these days.

Ryan Williams wrote: I'm not being a jerk at all. I am simply asking a serious question. If I had started my own thread and used that question as the title, I bet most of the answers would be NO, that horse died long ago. Every time a thread about anchors gets posted, a third of the information ends up being useless nonsense and sometimes downright dangerous advice. At best, the end result is that a few wise and experienced climbers say that there is no one or two ways to build an anchor because every situation is different. Then the thread dies, we all move on, and a few weeks later the cycle is repeated. It's nonsense. It detracts from the good material on this website. It needs to stop.

Easy there Ryan.

John Wilder wrote:I can't say I've ever heard of an anchor actually blowing in the field- which is not to say its never happened, but if it has, its an extraordinarily rare occurrence.

I don't have an exact count, but in my 55 years of climbing I think I've learned of about ten such failures, all with fatal consequences.

Elena Sera Jose wrote:As in: you are going to build your equalized station with your climbing rope? Never heard of that please post pics and explain.

I've posted this many times on numerous sites. My apologies for the repetition for those who have been familiar with this type of thing for years.



It is quicker to set up and take down than a cordelette when you take total time, including getting the cordelette on and off your harness into account. It is much more flexible in terms of anchor and powerpoint positions, and it is far easier and faster to fine-tune in case of any arm inequalities that result during tying. It does not impose any restrictions on belay escape, and is obviously more robust.

There is no anchor in climbing less in need of any kind of equalization than the modern two-bolt belay anchor. For trad anchors with three or more anchor points, the direct rope tie-in is a better option than a cordelette, with two exceptions.

1. If the climbers are climbing in blocks, than the setup has to be redone for the follower each pitch, or else the leader and follower have to switch ends of the rope.

2. On rope-stretching pitches, it uses up rope that might be needed to get to the next station. (It is, however, easy for the belayer to dump clove hitches 2,3, and 4 and give the leader all the rope used up in the anchor. This leaves the belayer connected to only one piece, which shouldn't be much of an issue with the leader 200 feet away with all kinds of intermediate pro.)

rgold wrote: I don't have an exact count, but in my 55 years of climbing I think I've learned of about ten such failures, all with fatal consequences.

A couple I can think of off the top of my head. That couple in Yosemite that had two sets of anchor fail when one of them fell off the belay. Those guys in Tahquitz, most likley, a coulple years ago.

That said, I rarely ever carry an equalette or cordalette. I do when I think I might need one, ala new routing in an area where being able to chop them into bits for anchors might be nice. Or, if I'm taking a few folks out and we'll be siege TRin' something that has an anchor back from an edge. Maybe on a wall for hauling/jugging.

Usually just snap a few clove hitches with the rope into whatever I have for anchors (nuts, cams).

Elena Sera Jose wrote: What's your climbing experience in trad multipitch?

Yeah, Josh, what's your experience? Ha ha...

climbing.com/news/hotflashe…

i find cords useful for tree anchors and for rap tat ... i also tend to do most of the leading these days

everybody does it differently, there is no "right" way ... though there are definitely "bad" ways ...

the trick is not being closed minded about what others do ... as to quads, how did all these climbers never use one for such a long time and not die ;)

I always want to simply tie in with the rope, but it is rare that i am not either leading in blocks or climbing with three. I still like the old web-o-let to keep things simple and relatively compact.