Where to go around Boulder to get comfortable falling on trad gear

For: Trad: "Leads 5.8 Follows 5.10a"

And: "top rope for backup, good gear placements, good position for my belayer, clear fall line."

You may consider N. Table Mt. You can access lots of the routes from above, there are loads of 5.6-5.9 trad lines between the bolted lines, the routes are short and near vertical. The only thing is being from Boulder, you might object to the minor distance. One challenge with Boulder Canyon is that routes in that difficulty range tend to be harder to set up top ropes, and the angle tends to be slabby in that difficulty range (adding to risk of catching an ankle or hitting something). Eldo is tough to set up TRs to practice leading.

"Practice falling on trad gear"
?......

You will learn a lot catching an experienced climber falling on a harder route. And following their leads. Belaying(catching) experience is just as important as fall technique or and climbing harder. I personally don't feel comfortable climbing with someone that has never caught a fall. I don't want to be their first.

the leader does not fall mantra is a bit over kill though I would say there are plenty of times this is true, there also plenty of times it is safe to fall.

If you're worried about damaging your gear on a fall you may plateau at 5.9. Gear is meant to be used. And replaced when it is worn. Cams can log more falls than you think before they need to be replaced.

If you are hangdogging on gear, perhaps backing off a grade or two until this doesn't happen. Enjoy those routes, there are many of them.

I don't think I started falling on gear until I progressed into 5.10 or so. It is a natural progression. First you learn where it is safe to fall and where it is not. You learn where it is safe to run it out and where you are not comfortable with it. The harder routes are generally safer to fall on. Follow many routes and go back some day and REPEAT them on lead.

Try logging a lot of falls on sport routes. Learn where on sport routes it is safe to fall. Push your limits, and go for it.

In over fifteen years of climbing I don't remember if I ever took a practice fall. But as you continue to climb and progress it will happen.

Most of the south facing routes on the Wind Tower in Eldo.

Sorry about the tome below. I am waiting to go to work and I hope this helps someone with their fear.

I have been climbing since I was sixteen and I am 53 now. When I started leading I rarely fell and was able to climb up to 5.11 by the time I was 18. I have run the full range of fear from nervous to scared shitless. I remember climbing with Dennis Horning in 1981 and I was living and climbing at Devils Tower. When I told Dennis I had yet to fall at the Tower he told me I wasn't climbing hard enough. I disagreed and probably had some cocky response. I did eventually fall off of two routes that summer. I pulled back on and finished them. I didn't push as hard as I could have though and stayed away from the only 12 at the tower at that time.

I moved to Tucson AZ at the end of 1981 and for years after I still didn't fall all that much. Pro is not all that good on many of the older routes here. I didn't push that hard and didn't fall.

My fear of falling went from high to low. I remember being afraid of falling on top-rope at one point and being pretty annoyed. I didn't just let go and fall however. I held on tight and got up the pitch. The fear did not go away.

As more bolted routes appeared and I began to push hard as Dennis had suggested I began to fear falling less and less as I took more and more falls. Since I rarely did much trad climbing falling on gear was not an issue. I still at times was fearful of falling. This often lead me to not go for it on climbs that I should have on-sighted. That really pissed me off. I changed my goal.

From that point on I didn't care if I failed or sent the climb as long as I went for it. Going for it and falling was now a success. I on-sighted a ton more climbs closer to my limit. That was mostly on bolted routes.

The thing I believe about fear is this. The brain wants you to live and it instills fear to keep you alive. When I am off the ground and not feeling secure I get can become fearful. This can happen even if I am on an overhanging wall clipped to 4 bolts.

If I trust the system then my rational mind can overpower the normal but irrational fear. Most of us do this when we take an airplane ride. I needed to do this with trad gear, not stoppers but cams. To do this I decided to get on a route I knew I would fall on in order to help me in this process. I took many whippers on the smallest of cams and horizontal cams. I can still get nervous about it but I now trust them so much more.

I have done the hardest trad routes of my life in the last 5 years all because I now trust the gear.

If I am worried about a piece and I know I have bomber stuff between me and the ground, I will drop off. Once I have tested a piece (sometimes it takes a couple of falls), the fear is gone. I have done this on sport routes too. Every now and then I feel a little fear and if I am not trying to on-sight a climb I just let go. The fear goes away and I climb to my ability level.

Sorry this does not answer your question but I always feel like sharing my experience when I see the "leader must not fall" dogma popping up.

As always Arno Ilgners Book "Warriors Way" is helpful.

The advice about finding a bolted route where you can place some gear just above the bolt is a great plan as well. When you put the gear in try to get bomber placements, then make crappier and crappier placements until it fails. You will learn a ton about what makes a good placement this way.

When the fear is diminished or gone you will climb better and have more fun. Good luck!

doing a few aid climbs will teach you a lot about placing gear, especially if its not super straightforward c1. keep free climbing without getting in over your head and eventually you will figure it out and get more comfortable.

Jesus Crimony I can't believe the responses here. THe guy asked for advice on where to go to step it up, not... " I'm a new climber with a brand new rack and I have no clue but I want to take big whippers" and yet a lot of people here are assuming he is clueless. If he is that's his problem and the rescue crew gets some more practice. Sounds like like you guys just want to here yourselves talk. Hey Boulder CHarles you want to go out and get your heart rate up?
Let's Go! I.M. me and we'll get it done. Everyone else can stay in the gym.

prod. wrote:Diving board. Prod.

Just seeing this thread for the first time;this is perfect. Use a #11 hex, and let 'er rip. You will lose all fear (bad idea-stay scared).
EDIT

Ben Walburn wrote:Jesus Crimony I can't believe the responses here. THe guy asked for advice on where to go to step it up, not... " I'm a Hey Boulder CHarles you want to go out and get your heart rate up? Let's Go! I.M. me and we'll get it done. Everyone else can stay in the gym.

Dude..the guy is talking about falling (on modern gear) with a top rope backup. My first lead fall resulted in a sprained ankle from decking out from fifteen ft. Not because my gear failed, my 14 year old partner was a jackass-only said he knew how. My fault, shoulda' givin' him a test or something...
Anyway, I want to write something about the changes in the attitudes of climbers over the years;and I'll try not to come across as patronizing or obvious. This may also come over as stream o' consciousness as it is well into cocktail hour...
Safety is an illusion,trad climbing is dangerous as hell.
Using a top rope to back up a lead climb disrespects the art, unless it's in the gym. Learning is learning, after all.
There are two kinds of trad climbing apprenticeships-
Scrupulous seconding an accomplished leader.
Putting your sorry ass on the line despite your ignorance, lack of ability, cowardice, etc. All true in my own case...
(Living through it, because you "ride in the shadow o' Lady Luck's wings'", is an unproven strategy)
Bottom line, pay your dues
Learn carefully, back it up when you can, don't fall 'til you've given your best...Happy Cragging!

...and there is another post of someone talking about themselves and telling Charles what to do. Maybe Charles is just talking for sake of talking on Mp as well, but if he wants to test his own gear with his own ass on the line that's his business not anybody elses. I just get a kick out of how everybody is so opinionated here on MP and frequently make assumptions about another persons experience. Ok so he said "toprope back up" and that may imply that he hasn't put the mileage in. If you read my first post I stated that exact point

..."assuming that you have spent the time getting mileage and placing gear then just step it up until you fall"...

I didn't hear him say anything about extravagant huge Dan Osman whippers. My first fall on gear was 4 ft., exhilarating and opened the door to the next step in climbing. That's what is being discussed here. Yet another nay sayer who has been there and done that is pouncing on this guy for wanting to have that experience ( and me for saying hell ya go get after it), his only mistake was posting it on MP. I wonder how many of the tuff guys here would have made the exact same sort of posts if Mountain Project was around when they started climbing.

I know my comments aren't going to be popular with many people but gear works and if the guy wants to figure that out then that's his business. That's my point and I did preface my encouragement with
...if you have the propper mileage and your are comefortable with gear..
If you don't Charles then ya, you are probably going to get hurt.

I just re read my initial post and I stick by it, if you think I'm out of line then maybe you didn't read my initial post.

Hmm...interesting comments. Thanks to those who took the time to offer constructive feedback.

To clarify, I am experienced placing gear and learned to place gear/build anchors from an IFMGA rock instructor. I have also spent time aiding and taking falls on bolts so it's not a beginner's problem or a general fear of falling. Rather, it's about committing to moves on (what is for me) hard terrain. I'm not looking to take any epic falls but, rather, what I consider small falls (gear at feet).

If you really wanna do it right, start climbing a number grade above what you are doing now. Either you'll make yourself a better climber, fall or both.

and that's exactly what I hear when I read your post. Good luck and do be careful the other comments are not void of experience.

there is a simpler way to do this.

find a sport climb with some sections that offer good gear placements. climb, clip bolt, climb a little bit more, place gear, fall.

that'll save you the trouble of finding a route that allows you to top rope and setting it up. it'll also save you the trouble of having two belayers or one who is trying to manage two ropes going opposite directions.

it'll also ensure that you don't get twisted up in and flipped over by the top rope slack.

Darren Mabe wrote:You will learn a lot catching an experienced climber falling on a harder route.(EDITED FOR BREVITY) its, and go for it. In over fifteen years of climbing I don't remember if I ever took a practice fall. But as you continue to climb and progress it will happen.

Good post.
Okay,I'm trying to get a reasonable perspective on this.
First-
Ben;I know you and respect you. You're no candy ass, and your comments are not bullshit.
Charles; it's a different world now. When I was learning, it was all about making it through til the next learning experience. Perhaps some of us oldsters are a little resentful of modern luxuries; just as Bridwell and Erickson might consider me a pansy...
Maybe the most rational bit of advice I can give is this: if you are losing control of your mental composure...dial it back-
sag onto a good piece
bail if you don't feel good
go ahead and fall if you like your pro
get beta from people who have done the route
remember that this game is not for the faint of heart; take pride in that
have fun
there's always another day, until you get yourself killed
If I've offended anyone with any of this, I apologize, cranky old guys are probably always going to bitch about the kids.

Hey Joe, I wasn't trying to start up with you personally and I know you have years of experience beyond mine. I read people's questions to the strict point of what they say or ask and try to respond accordingly. A lot of assumptions and condescending remarks (not yours) get thrown out on MP. I personally feel that it detracts from the integrity of the site so I tend to aggressively point that out at times. Let's get out into Eldo one of these days.

Don't fall on 5.8, you'll get hurt no mater how good your gear is. If you want to know if your placements are good, get a mentor. If you want to practice falling, go to the gym or climb hard sport . No need for the mental masturbation about falling; when you are ready, it'll happen.

The advice about not falling onto gear because gear is expensive and wears out is hilarious. I worried about that too when I had absolutely no idea what I was doing many years ago. A #2 camalot gets more abuse getting tossed around onto talus inside your pack than it does catching a 10 foot fall in a handcrack. I have blue and black aliens that I have bounced tested dozens of times and fallen on more than once that are good as new. Gear is designed to be used - if the fall is safe i'd rather fall on a good cam than a bolt i didn't personally place.

Go to Indian Creek, place gear every bodylength, rinse and repeat.

Copperhead wrote:Don't fall on 5.8, you'll get hurt no mater how good your gear is. If you want to know if your placements are good, get a mentor. If you want to practice falling, go to the gym or climb hard sport . No need for the mental masturbation about falling; when you are ready, it'll happen.

Also silly. Go fall all you want on the 5.8s on Turkey Perch. You would only get hurt if you actively worked at it. Don't do anything stupid like fall on a 5.8 right above a ledge, but also don't do anything stupid like fall right above a ledge on a 5.11.

BoulderCharles wrote:Hmm... To clarify, I am experienced placing gear and learned to place gear/build anchors from an IFMGA rock instructor. I have also spent time aiding and taking falls on bolts so it's not a beginner's problem or a general fear of falling. Rather, it's about committing to moves on (what is for me) hard terrain. I'm not looking to take any epic falls but, rather, what I consider small falls (gear at feet).

JLP
If you are gonna comment on a thread you should read it first. Because you just reinforced my point about people wanting to hear themselves talk.
Thanks :)
...and I would feel indifferent, if after everything that was said here, he went out and got hurt. If he did get hurt after this entire thread, with everyone's (including my own) advise to be experienced before trying this stuff, I would think of Darwin. Rock Climbing is dangerous! That's the inherent risk of the activity and is assumed that you accept it when you make post and ask questions here on MP. He asked for encouragement and we gave it to him.
My point (again) is that some people want to here themselves talk. And yes I too am guilty of that at times. I'm also sitting in Boston this week with a lot of time on my hands, and it shows.

..the fact that several post (from the naysayers) have been deleted is noted. I will leave mine up with my name next to them; although, I don't think I'm winning any popularity points on this one!