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Dumb sh*t - prussik rope solo

Original Post
sanz · · Pisgah Forest, NC · Joined Nov 2011 · Points: 210

So I was out at Moore's wall introducing my brother to the area. We were climbing a great 5.6 which I have climbed several times and was incidentally my first trad lead. (Wailing wall for those around here.)

At the top, you anchor off a solid tree. The descent involves a fairly sketchy and long scramble along the cliff to a fixed anchor, with an exposed no-fall-zone area. I really didn't want to make my brother do this. So I decided to rap off the tree.

The reason you don't rap off this tree in the first place is that it is quite set back from the face and the rope runs over a smooth but frictiony edge. What I should have done, and didn't think of at the time, is lower my brother and then scramble to the rap station myself (very stupid). Didn't occur to me (stupid) so I figured we'd chance the rap and with both of us cranking on the rope, probably get it down (stupid).

Well the rope didn't budge. Not even a bit. With both of us putting dynamic force on it. I know there's a gully somewhere at Moore's but didn't know where it is, or what to look for to find this particular spot from the cliffline. I figured it would be a good way to waste the rest of the day.

So here's where the dumb sh*t comes in... or did it already? I decided I would attach my prussik around both ends of the "fixed" rope, have my brother pull on the ends, and rope solo to the top. I figured if I moved the prussik along with me, there would be no chance for a real fall, and the rope seemed very strongly fixed. If I got over my head I could just bail, slowly weight the rope, and rap back down.

It worked fine, and was actually pretty fun. I do wonder what would have happened if I had slipped or something though. As far as I can see, the only real danger would be if I had been really dumb and ran it out a while without moving the prussik with me, as a dynamic fall could definitely cut the cord. Still, it just feels like some gumby sh*t.

Any thoughts, other than the obvious fact that I'm gonna die? Anybody else ever soloed with a prussik? Any sweet techniques for pulling ropes stuck around rap trees? Feel free to berate me if necessary.

Mike Smyth · · Spartanburg, SC · Joined Jun 2011 · Points: 70

I have found it a good idea to bring along some extra webbing to sling up and rap down from. I'd rather lose $5-$10 worth of webbing than a rope. Glad you made it out of there safely or luckily. However you want to look at it

Sorden · · Estes Park, CO · Joined Sep 2003 · Points: 95

Sounds like you guys got yourselves into and out of a situation and you recognized the mistake you made and learned from it. You didn't get yourself into bigger trouble when you realized you were sorta F'd and you didn't use your cell phone to call in a rescue; congratulations, not criticism, is what you deserve. Bravo, sir, climb on.

MojoMonkey · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jan 2009 · Points: 66
sanz wrote:So I was out at Moore's wall introducing my brother to the area. We were climbing a great 5.6 which I have climbed several times and was incidentally my first trad lead. (Wailing wall for those around here.) At the top, you anchor off a solid tree. The descent involves a fairly sketchy and long scramble along the cliff to a fixed anchor, with an exposed no-fall-zone area. I really didn't want to make my brother do this. So I decided to rap off the tree. The reason you don't rap off this tree in the first place is that it is quite set back from the face and the rope runs over a smooth but frictiony edge. What I should have done, and didn't think of at the time, is lower my brother and then scramble to the rap station myself (very stupid). Didn't occur to me (stupid) so I figured we'd chance the rap and with both of us cranking on the rope, probably get it down (stupid). Well the rope didn't budge. Not even a bit. With both of us putting dynamic force on it. I know there's a gully somewhere at Moore's but didn't know where it is, or what to look for to find this particular spot from the cliffline. I figured it would be a good way to waste the rest of the day. So here's where the dumb sh*t comes in... or did it already? I decided I would attach my prussik around both ends of the "fixed" rope, have my brother pull on the ends, and rope solo to the top. I figured if I moved the prussik along with me, there would be no chance for a real fall, and the rope seemed very strongly fixed. If I got over my head I could just bail, slowly weight the rope, and rap back down. It worked fine, and was actually pretty fun. I do wonder what would have happened if I had slipped or something though. As far as I can see, the only real danger would be if I had been really dumb and ran it out a while without moving the prussik with me, as a dynamic fall could definitely cut the cord. Still, it just feels like some gumby sh*t. Any thoughts, other than the obvious fact that I'm gonna die? Anybody else ever soloed with a prussik? Any sweet techniques for pulling ropes stuck around rap trees? Feel free to berate me if necessary.
To rappel - did you just run your rope around the tree? Leave slings and 'biners/rings/quicklinks?
Kevin Flowers · · Granby, CT · Joined Mar 2010 · Points: 0

I would have either just ascended both ropes with your prusiks or I would have fixed one side of the rope to a tree, gear, or your brother and TR rope soloed the other side using a clove hitch or gri gri type device. I wouldn't feel great about falling on a friction hitch.

Edit: And yeah... wrapping a rope around a tree to rap is a pretty shitty thing to do unless it's an emergency.

FrankPS · · Atascadero, CA · Joined Nov 2009 · Points: 276
sanz wrote:I decided I would attach my prussik around both ends of the "fixed" rope, have my brother pull on the ends, and rope solo to the top.
Sanz,

Why did you have your brother pull on the rope? I think that actually makes it more difficult to prusik up the rope.

Also, when you are prusiking, tie backup knots on both strands of the rope every 10-15 feet and clip them to your belay loop. That way, if your prusiks slip, you won't burn down to the ground. It will limit how far you can slide down the rope.
Steve86 · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2011 · Points: 10

I would have felt better about soloing the fixed line with a grigri or a clove hitch than a prussik. Especially on something like wailing wall where there are a fair number of good stances to adjust the knot/pull slack through. That being said, rapping off the tree on the top of that route is by far the worst descent option.

talkinrocks · · Boulder, CO · Joined Aug 2008 · Points: 80
FrankPS wrote: Sanz, Why did you have your brother pull on the rope? I think that actually makes it more difficult to prusik up the rope. Also, when you are prusiking, tie backup knots on both strands of the rope every 10-15 feet and clip them to your belay loop. That way, if your prusiks slip, you won't burn down to the ground. It will limit how far you can slide down the rope.
I read it the same at first, but after reading it a few times came up with this. I think he was using the prussik to catch his fall while he solo climbed the rock? And his brother was pulling the ropes on the bottom end to make the ropes tight, or give a type of fireman belay?

Leaver 'biners and slings are your friends.
randy88fj62 · · Unknown Hometown · Joined May 2010 · Points: 291

Some people use the Petzl Shunt to do exactly what you did with a Prusik. You should always have two pints of contact on the rope. In this case FrankPS mentioned the best backup which is tying backup knots as you go. This is commonly done when ascending fixed ropes on big wall when you clean a route.

AnthonyM · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2009 · Points: 30
Sorden wrote:Sounds like you guys got yourselves into and out of a situation and you recognized the mistake you made and learned from it. You didn't get yourself into bigger trouble when you realized you were sorta F'd and you didn't use your cell phone to call in a rescue; congratulations, not criticism, is what you deserve. Bravo, sir, climb on.
+1

You also could have belayed your partner over to the rap rings/station and then they could have belayed you over (from the tree?) and both could have gotten down the same way...

Sounds like you are aware and observant. YER NOT GONNA DIE.
Shelton Hatfield · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2011 · Points: 650

I got in a similar situation once, but since I was without any cord I used my ATC set up like I was rappelling, pulling slack and tying backup knots as I went. I was also on a firemans from my partner. Needless to say I learned a lot from that debacle.

+1 on belaying each other through the exposed scetchyness next time, especially since you're brother would have been able to belay you from an established anchor.

Matthias Lang · · Albuquerque · Joined Nov 2010 · Points: 70

Stuck rope happend to me before. I guess the safest thing as KevinF suggests is to ascend the rope with two prussiks (assuming minimal gear). You can weight them at each step carefully to make sure they grip. It's just annoyingly slow. If you have never done this, you should practice with some backup rope and next time you'll be prepared.

Adam Kimmerly · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2005 · Points: 355

Google search "Tandem Prusik Belay". The prusik can definitely be used as a belay, similarly to the way you did, but it does have its limitations. It is frequently used in rescue applications.

One thing you'll notice with the tandem prusik belay in rescue applications is that a bend is always maintained in the rope to increase the likelihood of the prusik gripping rather than the rope just sliding through the loose prusik. If rigged well - with enough wraps and softer cord - it would probably catch fine in your application as well. Still, two prusiks and directly ascending the line probably would have been a better option to ensure the prusiks properly set each time.

Buff Johnson · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2005 · Points: 1,145

If you had put the prusik on just one of the strands, then you would have been a dumbass; otherwise, one on both isn't really all that big a deal. It works fine. You can always tie-in short as you move up through something hairy as well.

sanz · · Pisgah Forest, NC · Joined Nov 2011 · Points: 210

Thanks for the input guys... good advice from all.

So my take after some conversation:

Leaving a proper rap anchor on the tree would have been good.

Belaying to the fixed anchor would have been better.

Lowering my bro and scrambling to the fixed anchor myself would have been best.

Assuming we already made the mistake of rapping off the tree, ascending on two prussiks or at least tying backup knots as I climbed would have been safer.

Makes me feel somewhat better about my decision making ability that I didn't get flamed!

Thanks all.

Joe Huggins · · Grand Junction · Joined Oct 2001 · Points: 105

Give yourself some credit. You got through a situation without damage and with some valuable experience. Well done.

Matt King · · Durango, CO · Joined Oct 2009 · Points: 327

Adam be careful using the terminology of the tandem prussik. This belay technique was created using a long and short 8mm corded prussiks on static lines of rescue sized ropes around 11mm and bigger with a rescue size load including a patient, an attendant, a litter, and gear. Now this technique is used on dynamic climbing ropes in mountain rescue, but do note that these clutches will slip further due to smaller diameter dynamic climbing rope, and the person will fall further due to the dynamic rope. Also the 8mm cord has to pass the bite test which states that in pinching a bite of cord, the gap between the two strands cannot be more than half the thickness of 8mm cord it self or the prussik will not provide enough friction fast enough to grab the rope in an acceptable distance. Also these prussiks need to be dressed and snugged up constantly to assure they grab the rope appropriately. This is a really rough and possibly inaccurate explanation of basic rope rescue physics. If you want to know more about this stuff, take a Rigging For Rescue class. Well worth it and cool as shit!

Matt

roger fritz · · Rockford, IL · Joined Aug 2009 · Points: 60
Shelton Hatfield wrote:I got in a similar situation once, but since I was without any cord I used my ATC set up like I was rappelling, pulling slack and tying backup knots as I went. I was also on a firemans from my partner. Needless to say I learned a lot from that debacle. +1 on belaying each other through the exposed scetchyness next time, especially since you're brother would have been able to belay you from an established anchor.
I retrieved a stuck double length rope exactly as Shelton did with an ATC. The only exception is that I used an auto block on the brake strand instead of a firemans from my partner. I still tied back up knots below my auto block as I went up.
And by the way, It was actually fun to resolve the situation in a fairly efficient manner.
KevinCO · · Loveland, CO · Joined Mar 2006 · Points: 60

Thanks for the educational report and good job of getting yourseves out of a mess.

However, no matter how convenient, never wrap the rope around a tree. Pulling the rope will damage the tree and eventually kill it.

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

General Climbing
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