I want skinny legs

johnL wrote: Hopefully Aerelli chimes in on that. It seems step 4 would be the ideal scenario for muscle hypertrophy. If it's effective it seems pretty simple and painless.

Well, interval training that taxes whole body systems probably isn't the perfect recipe for shrinking muscle mass, although it is probably more effective than traditional resistance training (even high rep r.t.). Also, I think HIIT is more likely to reduce leg mass in terms of dropping body fat (although you certainly cannot target any specific area of your body to do so).

Although I totally understand what you're saying with regard to dropping more weight, I'm not sure I completely buy into the idea that dropping 5 lbs of non-inert mass in your legs is going to boost you that much. I'm not saying it's not possible but I don't know. You may be near the point of diminishing returns.

All bodies build mass differently. Some people build mass even from endurance training. Some people can lift like mofos and have a hard time putting it on. In general, though, endurance training builds smaller fibers (as you mentioned).

I think the suggestions of total immobilization, shark attacks, or bone-and-muscle-eating cancer in the legs are about as good as it gets. ;-) I definitely dropped mass in my legs in the past when I was so busy and stressed (and broke) I barely ate and had little time to really work out much. For me personally, though, this wasn't a long term strategy to climbing better.

Your best bet is to be hungry more often and stop doing big approaches (especially those involving uphill and downhill slogs and boulder hopping) with any kind of heavy pack...or try Delta Bravo's suggestion. 15 minute approaches to climbs requiring only micro gear (while your buddy carries the rope) will be ideal. :-)

Most every article on the interwebs I've read, tends to suggest that HIIT type workouts are best for preserving muscle mass while reducing fat, where doing steady state longer distance cardio, you're more prone to losing muscle mass along with fat loss. I don't know which would be better for the purposes of this conversation, or if what bf% you're currently at would be a determining factor in which to choose.
This is all assuming that you don't want to go the route of breaking your legs and rollin' around in a wheelchair for months - the consensus most effective method.

It appears as though mono is running, possibly uphill in his photo. Looks like that's the thing NOT to do unless you want some thick treetrunk legs like those =)

Hey Tim, when do you want to go climb? no homo! And none of that RRCoS slab stuff - too footwork-intensive, I don't want my legs getting too big!

My two cents on the subject can be found here.

Monomaniac wrote:My two cents on the subject can be found [here].

Next closest thing to doing absolutely nothing (wheelchair), is doing - nothing.

Didn't know you had a blog, that's going to kill at least 1/2 an hour at work tomorrow, score!

johnL wrote:This thread is going to get hilarious with the bullshit answers given but I bet a little good advice will come up. Most of you are probably going to think I've got a problem, I do, it's just not this one. I'm skinny already but I don't have the upper/lower body proportion of hard climbers my weight. I have leftover legs from my triathlon, or cycling, or even pedicabbing days. Fact is, I don't need them. Bird legs would get the job done and I'd be lighter. I don't have giant muscular legs and they certainly have shrunk since I quit racing several years ago. What's a good strategy to cut weight on the legs? It's got to be muscle, I'm well under 10% body fat, I don't have the good fortune to drop fat. I can be as light as 137 and as heavy as 145. I average 140. So how then do I drop 5 off the legs?

Isn't there some apocryphal story about Tony Yaniro rolling around in a wheel chair for six months so that he could send Grand Illusion?

OK for real dude....liposuction is your only choice at this point....you can get good deals now in India! Totally sweet deal .....and HOT nurses! Dude they want cash up front though....that sucks!

Jim Gloeckler wrote:RUN IN THE SAME PAIR OF TENNIS SHOES FOR ABOUT 6 MONTHS......THIS WILL DO THE TRICK, AND WEAR ENOUGH OF THE TREAD OFF SO THAT YOU WON'T HAVE TO MAKE CARDBOARD SHOES.

+55

First off, I don't know exactly what you mean by "well under 10% body fat". IMO, climbers who want to perform maximally should be aim lower, like 6-7% range. In my personal experimentation, I find that I can go as low as 6% without performance and training suffering (*based on bathroom scale measurements which are known to be inaccurate). Also, IME, the percentage of far you have is not indicative of the amount of weight you can loose. E.g., if youre 150 +10%, you would think you could only loose about 7.5 lbs, which would leave you at 5%. Not true IME. As you slim down you will also loose muscle in places where you are not working to maintain it. When I got serious about my diet, I went from about 170 (embarrassed to admit it) to 140 over the course of about 9 months, but my fat only went from about 8.5% to 6.5% (as measured by my bathroom scale). The rest of the weight must have been muscle, which we all know is heavier than fat.

My other main point is that the "do nothing to lose weight" technique also requires a change in diet that mono didn't mention. If you eat the same and do nothing, you will get fat (which might actually make you lighter in the short term, but not a better climber). The key element of the technique is that the reduced activity should reduce your appetite, and only by adjusting your diet accordingly will you actually lose weight.

Something to always keep in mind when hunting for weight loss advice: most people don't actually want to lose weight, they want to lose fat and get lean. This is a big difference, and climbers need to care about weight. Many personal trainers would tell you to do things like intervals and circuit weight training while eating a low fat diet. (which is out dated advice anyway since we know the body will easily convert excess carbs into fat). For a climber, you should not be doing intervals or lower body weight training unless it is high rep, low intensity. And your diet should be low fat AND low carb (basically low calorie) and you should probably watch your protein intake as well if you really want to lose muscle where it isn't needed (so I've been told, but you need to be careful with this, especially when training). There are other threads that address healthy dieting.

To sum up my advice:
-limit high intensity lower body exercise (intervals & lifting)
-train hard for climbing
-restrict your diet (fat, carbs, and protein)
-don't quit when you get under 10%

I have wished my legs were smaller for 30 years. I used to think about a house with ladders attached to the ceilings so I would never have to walk around.

5 lbs really helps but my experience is that it didn't make me a 13 climber. If you want to climb 13 and harder get on them all the time. Boulder. Do some of the countless training plans you have seen on this site. Then get on 13s all the time. Spend a year doing that and I would bet you will be doing 13s a lot faster.

Good luck.

What about 14's?

15's?

At what point should you pull out all the stops and do EVERYTHING within your power to improve?

You want to get rid of muscle mass? The only way to do that is to let them atrophy... which means not using them. So like people have already mentioned go out and break your leg or just wheel yourself around in a wheel chair for a month and make sure to never contract your leg muscles.

If your serious about climbing being bed ridden for 3 or 4 weeks should be no big deal so man up and do it, otherwise stop acting like an anorexic teenager.

JLP wrote:Mono looks like a wrestler, while the others doing the exact same thing look different. This guy weighs in at 122 lbs: skyrunner.com/bio.htm One of the best high altitude trail runners in history, but didn't make the olympics. Not a whole lot you can do about genetics. Ondra and Sharma look very different as well. Climbing is a cool sport in this way. Final performance is the sum of many nearly equally important things - strength, the mental game, experience and technique, etc. Unfortunate genetics can be compensated for more than in other sports, and there are many areas to specialize in. If none of this works out, you can always find a niche in extreme danger.

Read the guys bio... Impressive considering the longevity but to be named one of the top mountain runners of the year I'd expect more. I'm just hoping that someday there will be enough money in it to entice the Ethiopians to enter these races and go hard.

When my training partner from years back broke the world record at 50K, we talked about this. Alex was/is a pretty decent runner, but even he on runs mentioned that against the Ethiopians, irregardless of the distance, they will destroy him, every day of the week.

For my height, I would look exactly like a sickle cell at 137 lbs. Unless, of course, my fat ass legs were amputated.

1Eric Rhicard wrote:I have wished my legs were smaller for 30 years. I used to think about a house with ladders attached to the ceilings so I would never have to walk around.

Hahahahahaha

I love this thread. The liposuction in India idea is classic! :)

muttonface wrote: What's up with these guys' one bulbous finger? Anyone else notice it?

I do now. He should get that checked out!

Isn't that the bowl of the pipes they're smoking out of?

Your body adapts to the stress you put on it. You want to lose weight, you know you have to cut your caloric intake(how drastic and for how long is up to you), you want to target the muscle mass in your legs, during your caloric restriction avoid activities that would provide stimulus for your legs. Climb as you would normally

How many, if any, of you have used swimming in the process of losing leg mass/building endurance? I feel like swimming should be the perfect solution for climbers wishing to improve cardio but avoid leg workouts. I am one of those climbers who could benefit by dropping some leg mass, granted i do cycle about 20-30 miles weekly commuting, but that's an improvement from 50-60! Anyways, i plan to stop cycling almost all together over the summer and experiment with swimming. Any head's up, encouragement, or discouragement is appreciated!