Climbing Ethics and the Climbing Organizations
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In general I believe the climbing community as a whole is not only very dedicated to their sport, but also some of the greatest, genuinely nice people around. I am an undergrad Environment and Sustainability major going into my senior year at the University of Utah, and I am planning on going to law school after that. Because of this I think a lot about climbing ethics, and all that that entails... |
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I'm just gonna do this to get it out of the way so I can be the first to troll... |
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Shut up Alex, no one likes you ;) should have known you'd be the first to reply you MountainTroll. |
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No, but seriously, I also believe that climbers have a kind of elitist approach to their environmental consciousness. I only say this because I've had conversations with climbers who will constantly spray about their beliefs in sustainability and protectionism, all the while letting their dogs defecate all over and leave litter at the crag. It seems that some peoples mentality of "green" advocacy only goes as far as their personal, seemingly trendy, belief in the great outdoors. Their seems to be limited pragmatic work being done, which is fair to say may contribute to the fact that organizations such as the AF struggle financially. |
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I am getting olderish.. 30's now and been climbing since early 20's. I always took an interest in climbing ethics. Although I just started being a member of the access fund a couple years ago and will be for the rest of my life. I would like membership to the AAC but finding the extra cash is hard. Real hard... I guess thats the main reason I have not donated earlier in my climbing career. Lack of money. Not that I did not want to. I always pick up trash when I can and definately a leave no trace outdoorsman and always have been. I have done some adopt a crag work but not really official adopt a crag. More like me and a bunch of friends fixing trails that exist and cleaning up and climbing. Hope you find the answers you are looking for. |
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I would disagree with the last poster. I participated in the Arizona Mountaineering Club clean ups at Queen Creek Canyon and have friends that have been donating and members of AAC and AF for a long long time. I do believe most climbers care a considerable amount about the environment. A big part of why I climb and pretty much everyone I climb with is to get out into the wilderness. Also, a big part of climbing is community and everyone can't do everything but if everyone does something a lot gets done. You have to find your climbing community where ever you are. I found climbing communities throughout the country that were involved officially and or unofficially with the local climbing and keeping it environmentally sound for our future. |
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Be it a local group like the Salt Lake Climber's Alliance, or a national group such as AAC or AF, I believe something as simple as volunteering at an adopt a crag function or even attending an event is a worthy endeavor. Give money if you can, if not, thats fine, it's that you care that counts I think. |
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Lessen your environmental impact - kill yourself. |
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I think your friend is right on - an overwhelming majority of climbers do not regularly support any organization. I'll go one step further and say that it is my opinion that at best, one of every two climbers even thinks about the environment, ethics, impact, etc. Hell, most people I meet don't even care enough to figure out where the bolts come from and who takes care of their local areas, let alone how they can help. |
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For the people that are saying they can't find the money: I'd be interested to know what kind of cell phone bill you have every month. Cable bill? |
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+1 to what Ryan said. How much do you spend on Starbucks, on beer of dinner out? All of these only give something to the porcelain throne. We take the resource for granted. |
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OK, shameless plug for our San Diego organization that continually works hard to strike the right balance between recreation and preservation. |
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My experience is that many people who participate in outdoor activities simply don't realize the amount of effort required to maintain trails and help reduce impact on the environment. I'd imagine many climbers fall into this group, as well as a lot of hikers, bikers, and runners. |
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Ryan Williams wrote:For the people that are saying they can't find the money: I'd be interested to know what kind of cell phone bill you have every month. Cable bill?I'll get back to this but first to answer the posed question - I am a 35+ year member of the aac and a sporadic - but more often then not - member of the Access Fund. But I know I am in the minority of the over all climbing population - although defining "climber" is a hopeless rathole. Once a month at the gym? They think they are... But do suggest that the average climber is environmentally conscious is ludicrous. The averge climber thinks placing a bolt - a few ounces of steel on a dead rock, or empty oxygen bottles on the south col of Everest (where they are doing mno damage, or dogs crapping at the crag - hello animals crap in the woods - its called fertilizer, are "ethical" issues worth getting riled about. But suggest that private vehicles be banned from the Valley or question what the human cost of their latest iGadget is - and they will have a hissyfit. |
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Eric Engberg wrote:The averge climber thinks placing a bolt - a few ounces of steel on a dead rock, or empty oxygen bottles on the south col of Everest (where they are doing mno damage, or dogs crapping at the crag - hello animals crap in the woods - its called fertilizer, are "ethical" issues worth getting riled about. But suggest that private vehicles be banned from the Valley or question what the human cost of their latest iGadget is - and they will have a hissyfit.I would agree with Eric in the sense that climbing is a pretty high impact sport thanks to long drives and cliff base erosion. An environmentally conscious climber would of course recognize these impacts and try to minimize them while climbing and offset them in other lifestyle choices, but I'm not sure how far AF membership goes in accomplishing this. The older climber is probably right, but his choice of measure is a little weird. |
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Last I knew, the Access Fund had < 2% market penetration. Closer to 1%. |
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I admit, I'm not now a member of the Access Fund. It was the AF or NPR, and (for now) NPR needed it more in my area. |
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Brian Scoggins wrote: ... Even so, I can't claim to be making a difference just by spending money. I have to be out on a shovel, or out with a trash bag, cleaning it up. I'm ashamed to admit, I haven't.Well, We've got all the opportunity for that in the world too. "Adopt a Crag" events are all over. We've been lucky in Boulder that trail/crag day like events are drawing a good sized crowd when pimped out with social events and beer and such. But while 50 people is a lot of people, it is frequently 1/2 my pals and 1/2 the GP showing up... and it's still only 1% of the local climbing population. There is an upcoming crag day at Castle on Friday 5/11/12 after work. If anyone else is feeling the need to pitch in, RSVP to me for details. |
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I don't mean to be negative, but since when is it anyone's business where I spend my money? |
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I think it's a shame that more climbers aren't active in the larger community, but I think there are legitimate explanations for this (not excuses, just explanations). The sport attracts people with certain predispositions (low-income, narcissistic, anti-social) that make it unlikely they would be socially conscientious. |
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David Sahalie wrote:i donate time and money to a local access and maintenance group. I appreciate what AF does but feel that my local donations have a far bigger impact on what I access.+1 |