Mastercam 0 - Broken Cam Stop

Bummer that some of you didn't get the same stellar customer service from Metolius that I (and others) have received. When I talked to them, they seemed very aware of the cam stop "issue" with their #0 and #00 cams, which led me to believe that it was a design flaw of some sort. Before I even told the guy at Metolius what size the cam was that had the broken cam stop, he asked me, "Is it the #0 or #00 Mastercam that broke?" He never asked me how I thought it broke, either. "Just send it in and we'll replace it," he said.

If you look carefully at the initial photo I posted, you can see that the cam stops are directly in line with the grooves in the lobes...possible weak point perhaps? Maybe this is why they now have smooth lobes on the newer designs.

Count Chockula wrote:Bummer that some of you didn't get the same stellar customer service from Metolius that I (and others) have received. When I talked to them, they seemed very aware of the cam stop "issue" with their #0 and #00 cams, which led me to believe that it was a design flaw of some sort. Before I even told the guy at Metolius what size the cam was that had the broken cam stop, he asked me, "Is it the #0 or #00 Mastercam that broke?" He never asked me how I thought it broke, either. "Just send it in and we'll replace it," he said. If you look carefully at the initial photo I posted, you can see that the cam stops are directly in line with the grooves in the lobes...possible weak point perhaps? Maybe this is why they now have smooth lobes on the newer designs.

There is a difference between a defective cam stop and breaking the cam by exceeding it's stated load rating. Lead falls on a 00 or 0 will destroy the cam eventually.

I agree...but in my case, the cam was most likely damaged during a burly cleaning, not from a fall.

Ray Pinpillage wrote: You got lucky before, there is a reason Metolius doesn't rate that cam at 12KN. You were using the gear outside of its intended purpose and now you expect someone else to shoulder the responsibility. The cam didn't just break, YOU broke it. It makes me wonder when you complain about Arcteryx how much you play in that equation. Or rather, if you're misusing that gear too and expecting them to be responsible.

well mista ray ... perhaps you can tell me how various other people have issues with their dead bird harness ... and why dead bird beefed up the lower tie in points on their new harness ... perhaps they arent meant to be free climbed on ;)

you place what gear you can ... anything is better than nothing ... no where in their manual or on their TCU page does metolius say its for aid only ... sure its rated to 5 kn, but then many other microcams are rated to roughly the same .... but then im sure yr so awesome that you dont bother placing cams anyways =P

ill be bringing it back to MEC ... which is the reason you buy from MEC/REI ...

bearbreeder wrote: well mista ray ... perhaps you can tell me how various other people have issues with their dead bird harness ... and why dead bird beefed up the lower tie in points on their new harness ... perhaps they arent meant to be free climbed on ;) you place what gear you can ... anything is better than nothing ... no where in their manual or on their TCU page does metolius say its for aid only ... sure its rated to 5 kn, but then many other microcams are rated to roughly the same .... but then im sure yr so awesome that you dont bother placing cams anyways =P ill be bringing it back to MEC ... which is the reason you buy from MEC/REI ...

You sound confused, I didn't say it was for aid only, I said you applied more force than it is rated for. You clearly broke the cam, it wasn't defective like you insinuated. No one owes you anything, especially not Metolius.

Ray Pinpillage wrote: You sound confused, I didn't say it was for aid only, I said you applied more force than it is rated for. You clearly broke the cam, it wasn't defective like you insinuated. No one owes you anything, especially not Metolius.

did i use the word "owes" ... i think you are confused here ;)

some companies just take care of their customers regardless ... and its not like they are going out of business =P

The REI Guarantee
We stand behind everything we sell. If at any time your REI purchase doesn't meet your expectations, you can return it for a replacement or refund. What's more, if you're an REI member, you don’t even need a receipt—we'll have a record of your purchase.

......

MEC's Rock Solid Guarantee

Like many retailers, we guarantee our products; if an item hasn't met your expectations, you can bring it back. Unlike most retailers, we also guarantee the product selection advice offered through our website and staff; if an item you've purchased based on this advice turns out to be unsuitable, you can bring it back. In either case, simply return the item for exchange, refund, repair, or credit.

.....

Here at Outdoor Research, we are committed to developing truly functional solutions for Human Powered Adventure.
OR products are Designed By Adventure™ and from this, we deliver the hallmark of all Outdoor Research products – functional gear that works and lasts. By placing quality and function first, we can offer the finest guarantee in the industry for each and every product – OR’s Infinite Guarantee™.
We believe so strongly in the quality of what we make that if, at anytime, our product fails to meet your needs, we are happy to exchange or return it. Because of this solid belief, our products are guaranteed forever and are designed with this in mind. Your total satisfaction in our product is our goal.
Though we doubt you’ll ever need to, if you ever have to use our Infinite Guarantee, see the Returns and Exchanges section above.

....

Ryan Williams wrote: Without the cam-stop, the cam is useless.

What kind of math are u doing. The stop plays no role in camming mode. Only in chocking mode.

bearbreeder wrote: ....

Quit being such a cheap ass! First off. Count was talking about a mastercam, and you broke your janky old TCU. Metolius replaced a defective "master cam" and told you to go take a walk when your perfectly good "TCU" was broken by your lack of placement and understanding of the purpose of that cam. I like to back up little stuff because it's only rate at 5kn. If I break my gear, I buy new gear.

Your behavior is what puts good local shops out of business. REI only can replace your broken shit because they put local competition out of business.

Randy W. wrote: Quit being such a cheap ass! First off. Count was talking about a mastercam, and you broke your janky old TCU. Metolius replaced a defective "master cam" and told you to go take a walk when your perfectly good "TCU" was broken by your lack of placement and understanding of the purpose of that cam. I like to back up little stuff because it's only rate at 5kn. If I break my gear, I buy new gear. Your behavior is what puts good local shops out of business. REI only can replace your broken shit because they put local competition out of business.

awww ... cry me a river ... maybe you should go tell REI to change their guarantee ... rather than just keyboard commando about it ;)

REI, MEC, OR, EB knows very well what their return policies are and what it does for their business

i havent contacted metolius at all ... but then you cant even read ... why bother with metolius when the retailer covers it with no shipping costs ...

i support a certain little shop in squamish with my business for shoes and other consumables ... other gear i buy from MEC for good reason ... its a free market, and people vote with their dollars

but then im sure yr climbing "ethics" always include telling other people what to do ... are ya one of those moralizing republicans by chance ;)

I also climbed on a purple mastercam that had a snapped-off cam stop.

The cam stops on Master Cams are necessary for the cam to work in any mode. The spring curls around the cam stop and without it in place, there is no spring tension.

It was on a friend's rack we were using for the day, the piece was quite new, and he said he couldn't figure out how it had broken since he hadn't weighted the piece yet.

I didn't realize that cam was broken until I went to place it and noticed that half of the lobes didn't expand after I pulled the trigger.

Metolius's response was basically that damage happens to small and finnicky gear, and they had no way to ensure I hadn't abused the gear, which is obviously all true. They weren't going to replace it.

Greg D wrote: What kind of math are u doing. The stop plays no role in camming mode. Only in chocking mode.

Unless the springs are attached to the stops. Thanks Blake.

Ryan Williams wrote: The force is no higher than if you got 5 to 10 feet above a #2 Camalot. The problem is, the small cams are rated to 4-5kN and the bigger ones around 12kN.

Ryan, I should have been more specific. What I meant by a high force was relative to the strength of the cam itself. Thanks

I recently had a cam stop failure on my purple master cam as well. It was bought when the master cams first came out. The good folks at rock and snow got on the horn with metolius they sent them some pics of the cam stop/heads and i got a new cam. The new lobes are the major difference. The lobes are now smooth. According to metolius the grooved lobes weakened the milled stop and was a design weakness effecting both the purple and grey. My question now is my 00/grey hasn't failed yet but i dont feel like waiting till it does. Will metolius take back a unbroken cam that they havent officially recalled?