How hard do people really climb?

Shumin Wu wrote: Well, I bet it's more they want to understate other's ability . I heard Sharma fell on a 5.11+ pitch on his recent attempt at onsighting the nose. Never mind he can climb 5.15, because he's obviously only a 5.10 (or at most mid 5.11) climber.

Ding ding ding.

caughtinside wrote: You haven't fallen off anything easier than that in the last 6 months?

Did you actually read what you quoted?

Route ratings are so subjective that I dont think anyone can ever really claim to be a "5.10" climber. A Leavenworth 5.10 as compared to a Vantage 5.10 or a Gunks 5.10 they are all different.

Hmann2 wrote:Route ratings are so subjective that I dont think anyone can ever really claim to be a "5.10" climber. A Leavenworth 5.10 as compared to a Vantage 5.10 or a Gunks 5.10 they are all different.

Accounting for that is the purpose of the "80%" rule I quoted... it accounts for outliers and individual strengths and weaknesses.

Tony B wrote: ...You call yourself a 5.10 climber, I expect you can on-sight 80% of the 5.10's in 80% of the areas in the country.

Why do we have to reduce climbing to sound bites? I mean other than the fact that most of us are just bored when were on MP and wish we were climbing.

Reallyseth, so it took you since June to come up with your witty response? Bravo.

Since this thread has now popped back up I will gladly participate. Most climbers will never climb 5.12, nor do they wish to. It's the new super cool recreation thing and everyone knows working hard aint "recreation". There are positives and negatives to this which I won't bother getting into. The average climber probably climbs less hard than 10 years ago as the bottom end is full up with folks who are just out there for a good time. Nothing wrong with a good time, eh?

Reallyseth, what you're missing is that most climbers don't have projects and don't really care how hard they climb.

hehe, so it looks lik the original doofus to revive this thread got deletezed, and now climbing fascist looks like the chump! Classic! Wait, don't delete his post...

The censorship around here is getting out of control. It's creating new absurdities from perfectly good old ones. I mean, really. This is a thread about climbing grades. It should be no holds barred stupid. Leave it.

David Sahalie wrote: what are you talking about? people are climbing way harder these days. 13 is the new 12. for the 50th time, get out of your small wisco pond dude!

There are plenty more people who climb hard grades than 10 years ago, however those people are vastly offset by the recreational climber who only climbs 5.10 at best. At your grid bolted choss pile the grades are inflated anyway so I can see how you might get that impression ;)

johnL wrote:Why do all the best midwest climbers no longer live in the midwest? Or why do all the most attractive women from Ohio live in Colorado? Being born or growing up in the midwest is not your fault, living there beyond that though...

I went to Purdue, and was making fun of a climber from the Sierras that was going there too. He had an awesome response that shut me down... which is pretty rare:

Nick: "Dude, you call me foolish for coming here from Bishop - but seriously, I had no idea. Look at you - you have lived here all your life - you KNEW and you STAYED."

Me: "Uhhh... I got nothin'."

David Sahalie wrote: what are you talking about? people are climbing way harder these days. 13 is the new 12. for the 50th time, get out of your small wisco pond dude!

Well as has already been mentioned - because of grade inflation the old 12 is indeed today's 13. Same climb.

But is we are talking about the average grade for ALL climbers it probably is trending down - IF you count the once a month meet up style climbers socializing at the local gym as part of your sample pool.

Eric Engberg: "Well as has already been mentioned - because of grade inflation the old 12 is indeed today's 13. Same climb."

Yeah I'm with JohnL and David on this one. In fact I might even let you tag along for a day. We'll start on a couple of 5.12 warmups and then put a few burns on one of the 5.13+ routes I've done recently and then we can warm down on a few more 5.12s. Let you judge if they are about the same grade. I started routinely onsighting 5.12's as I started to send 5.13 projects, and no they are not the same grade.

Well it seems a bit odd being that the mid west is such a bad place to live that so many keep the road hot to the Red River Gorge,KY and yes I believe the western states are well represented.

johnL wrote: I'm calling shenanigans here. I know several people who have climbed the grades mentioned above in all areas. The style of routes are often so different that it's nearly impossible to say what it is old school vs modern. This isn't really a 12d vs13a argument. You stated that there is a FULL number grade difference in old vs new. Show me and show me examples. Let me remind you, this is about 12's and 13's and not 9, 10, or 11. I'm waiting for your list of old 12's with a modern consensus of 13.

maybe he meant to say that 13 is the new 12?

I climb as hard as Chris Sharma. I just do it on easier routes.

David Sahalie wrote: example? i've been climbing for 25 years. i couldn't climb 13s 10 years ago because i wasn't fit enough, now i can. the ratings haven't changed, i did.

David, just out of curiosity, how old were you when you broke into 12's?

whatever is posted on 6a.nu

David Sahalie wrote:24.

I was hoping you'd say something like 36, for my own selfish reasons...

i personally try not to climb "hard" it gets in the way, i prefer climbin' flacid

jhn payne wrote:Well it seems a bit odd being that the mid west is such a bad place to live that so many keep the road hot to the Red River Gorge,KY and yes I believe the western states are well represented.

Kentuckians most certainly do not consider themselves to be mid-western. Specifically those from the Cumberland Plateau. It might be difficult to gather that from climbing at the red as it seems to be full of mid-westerners who have burned up the roads to get there.