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For all you outdoor educators out there...

Original Post
Sam Feuerborn · · Carbondale · Joined Aug 2009 · Points: 810

I have a friend doing a study on burn out rates among guided and outdoor educators that could use some more participants in his study.

All info is confidential. You'll be required to create a login although it doesn't need to be a real address, just following standard email format.

The survey takes about 2 minutes and would be greatly appreciated!

EDIT: took link down b/c too many hits which is awesome thanks guys I'll still be sure to post up data

Cheers,
Sam

TDF-Tommy · · Jones OK · Joined Feb 2012 · Points: 30

Can we see the data when its all doped out, would be super interested.

Sam Feuerborn · · Carbondale · Joined Aug 2009 · Points: 810

Ya when the data's available I'd be happy to post up!

APBT1976 · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Nov 2011 · Points: 55

My first ice instructor suffered from massive burn out. Actually spent more time talking about was how over ice climbing he was and how sweet paragliding is.

Needless to say i never went back to the guy but i did take many many more ice lessons.

shotgunnelson · · Unknown Hometown · Joined May 2009 · Points: 5

After a full summer of taking a bunch of people down the river my wife can barely handle me. I gather more and more hatred for the human race. I cannot count how many times I have been told how lucky I am. I guess I don't see having no money, health insurance, retirement, and then spending days sucking up to people I would never choose to spend time with in normal life because I need the tip money as me living the dream. It never ceases to amaze me how many people ask me about life decisions. Seriously? Who the fuck needs advice from twenty six year old career river rat. At least I never put any time or money into being a climbing guide because it would most assuredly make me hate the sport. There ....... I feel much better. Let the cold waters of the spring cool down this burnout.

matt davies · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2007 · Points: 25
shotgunnelson wrote:Who the fuck needs advice from twenty six year old career river rat.
45 year old careerist cogs who realize they've traded the best years of their lives for social status (and not much of it) and a lot of fancy STUFF. People will always remember that awesome trip they took down the river with that cool guide, but nobody ever remembers the Associate Vice President of Widget Development, unless it's the young Turk in accounting who realizes they can make a lot more money for the stockholders by eliminating their redundant position.
Olaf Mitchell · · Paia, Maui, Hi, · Joined Mar 2007 · Points: 4,190

I'll be dropping in on this thread again!

Jason N. · · Grand Junction · Joined Mar 2011 · Points: 10
matt davies wrote: 45 year old careerist cogs who realize they've traded the best years of their lives for social status (and not much of it) and a lot of fancy STUFF. People will always remember that awesome trip they took down the river with that cool guide, but nobody ever remembers the Associate Vice President of Widget Development, unless it's the young Turk in accounting who realizes they can make a lot more money for the stockholders by eliminating their redundant position.
This. Not that I would know.
shotgunnelson · · Unknown Hometown · Joined May 2009 · Points: 5

Yeah..... So It seems I read that wrong that this would be a thread were burnout guides could rant about there jobs. Guess not. Oh well I will save it for a room full of smelly raft guides after an obscene amount of booze. None of you have to worry I like my job and work as hard as I can to make sure everyone who goes has a great time.

TDF-Tommy · · Jones OK · Joined Feb 2012 · Points: 30
shotgunnelson wrote:Yeah..... Oh well I will save it for a room full of smelly raft guides after an obscene amount of booze. None of you have to worry I like my job and work as hard as I can to make sure everyone who goes has a great time.
Keep feeding this thread, I am really interested what the word on the street is... I left a career after 10 years and have jumped both feet into an outdoor educator education. Besides what I know from a couple heads that work in the field, I am interested in what the hard-charging 'fulltime make a living' guys think- we dont get this in text books and our 70 year old teachers.

Responsibility be damned! I know its a hand-to-mouth, no security, finite lifespan (working age), and putting up with assholes from time to time- but weighing that versus 20-35 years of working to make someone else richer, while I die a little everyday is worth it at the end of the day.
MTN MIA · · Vail · Joined May 2006 · Points: 405

I have been an outdoor educator for over 25 years and I still love it just as much as day one. There are two primary reasons for staying enthusiastic and happy about it:

1. There is nothing more satisfying than when students smile and laugh and say "wow, this is awesome", "Yeah, I made it to the top", "never thought I could or would do this"......... etc etc

2. Teaching people how to embrace outdoor activities in a safe and fun way while being good stewards of the land is so important.

I teach a variety of outdoor education courses including alpine skiing, rock and ice climbing, mountaineering, desert survival etc. It saddens me to read stories about educators who have lost their spark and love for teaching. It should be fun, shouldn't it?

mark felber · · Wheat Ridge, CO · Joined Jul 2005 · Points: 41
Mia Tucholke wrote:It saddens me to read stories about educators who have lost their spark and love for teaching. It should be fun, shouldn't it?
Unfortunately, too many educators do lose their spark (or never had it to start with), and stay in the field because they don't know what else to do with their lives.

People who go into the outdoor education/guiding game out of a love of the outdoors and a genuine desire to share that love seem to resist burnout much better than those who become guides or instructors for more self-centered, ego-driven reasons. Unfortunately, there seem to be at least as many egomaniacs in the outdoor business as there are true teachers or leaders.
shotgunnelson · · Unknown Hometown · Joined May 2009 · Points: 5

Ok so I have been a raft guide for nine years now and on most days it is the best job in the world, but just remember that it is just that. A job, and like most jobs everyone will have days were they hate it and wonder why they chose to do it no matter how much "spark" you have. I train all our new guides every year and love seeing people progress and learn. That being said a lot of people only do one year because they find out that even though they may love the outdoors doesn't mean they will enjoy this job. I have had people puke, say incredibly terrible and racist comments, throw there plastic water bottle right off the boat into a designated wild and scenic river, and be complete jerks to me or some of my fellow employees, and these end up being the ones you rant about not the other 90 percent that were fun to be around. Maybe I should have never been a guide and I am giving a dickish point of view, but there has to be somebody to do it. People don't always shit rainbows and throw money at you. I will quote one of my favorite raft guide friends, and an undoubtable lifer " life ain't always titties and blow my friends"

MTN MIA · · Vail · Joined May 2006 · Points: 405
shotgunnelson wrote:" life ain't always titties and blow my friends"
My life has never been "titties and blow", thank goodness for that!!!
TDF-Tommy · · Jones OK · Joined Feb 2012 · Points: 30

Anyone out there 30-35 with a family and bills? How do you make it work?

Tim Stich · · Colorado Springs, Colorado · Joined Jan 2001 · Points: 1,520

I wish I could remember of the climbing guide I met in Eldo once several years ago. We had beers at his place. He said he suffered from burnout big time. Guiding was beginning to ruin his own enjoyment of climbing.

MTN MIA · · Vail · Joined May 2006 · Points: 405

I am sure there are several stories of encounters with "burned out" guides and educators; however, I would hope the majority are still enjoying the work they do. Of course it is always easier to complain....... and those who do tend to be more vocal.

So how about changing the tune to a more up-beat discussion. Tell a story of the best guide/educator you have ever had, or tell about the work you do in a positive light, or about who has inspired you to do what you do.

thomas ellis · · abq · Joined Oct 2009 · Points: 2,615

But isn't this about burn outs? Start your own thread about happy happy joy joy guiding. Just sayin.

mark felber · · Wheat Ridge, CO · Joined Jul 2005 · Points: 41

I've met one individual who had a family, was actively guiding (UIAGM certified) at age 50+, and seemed to find it a rewarding lifestyle. Based on his description it did not seem like an easy job at all. He seemed to feel that you had to be at least 30-35 to have developed the maturity and perspective needed to be a really good guide.

TDF-Tommy · · Jones OK · Joined Feb 2012 · Points: 30

Yeah, the only problem is getting the foot in the door- correct me if I am wrong, but it seems as if you need to be 20-something and willing to work for room and board, which is great for a young guy or gal with no roots.

Dont want to thread steal... but weigh in with opinions- i.e. skip this..., do this..., etc.

Plan of attack right now is finish up a Park & Rec degree, concurrently, attend a NOLS outdoor educator course in June (w/ WFR), knock out an AMGA SPI in May, try to get into an IWLS guide course next summer, and in between, work with kids out here in VA pro bono- already have an amateur outdoor resume, and trying hard as hell to increase that despite being on the wrong coast, AND finally/mostly trying to stay happily married and Dad to a 5 month old- whew... Also kicking around the idea of getting a NWC rafting guide cert to diversify.

Taylor-B. · · Valdez, AK · Joined Oct 2009 · Points: 3,186

The majority of your clients can be the fat cat business people (or their kids) that actually contribute to the destruction of the environment, and all they care about is the summit or heli ski line. Plus the AMGA discriminates against snowboarders and women, which is unprofessional, so it is hard to get paid a professional wage in the United States as a guide.

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

General Climbing
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