Getting Shot at While Climbing! WTF!!!

David N wrote:I signed up to say - this thread horrifies me. I'm going to say this has probably never happened in Australia, and I hope it never will. The fact that so many people have stories of being shot at just compounds the casual horror of this thread; reading this for me is, I imagine, a bit like reading about a day in the life of a starving African child might be for any of us. I'm going climbing. I can confidently say no one within many miles will be carrying a gun, for any purpose.

No one shoots at you in Australia? What fun is that? I'm canceling my trip.

JLP wrote: I've never seen any statistics on guns successfully being used in self defense. I have read the occasional story, but I have never seen any numbers. Supporting links anyone? +1 to Todd's posts. All of the "safe" gun owners I've met are generally paranoid freaks to varying degrees as well - generally found in the lower demographics of everything.

You can find the links easily enough with a little effort. However, they're not relevant since people don't need to justify owning in item based on statistics.

People like JLP remind me of the white supremecists. They cope with their own shortcomings by claiming superiority over another demographic. They justify this based on the actions of a small portion of their chosen "whipping boy."

Since most gun owners I know are educated professionals and all of them are great people, I doubt that JLP belongs to any higher demographic than they do.

Pranqster wrote: You can find the links easily enough with a little effort. However, they're not relevant since people don't need to justify owning in item based on statistics. People like JLP remind me of the white supremecists. They cope with their own shortcomings by claiming superiority over another demographic. They justify this based on the actions of a small portion of their chosen "whipping boy." Since most gun owners I know are educated professionals and all of them are great people, I doubt that JLP belongs to any higher demographic than they do.

wow, so you signed up for a new handle yesterday to say this???

I will agree though, more people than you think have guns. Usually smart people dont talk/brag about their arsenal so you'll never know.

usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/…

Another reason that people are more dangerous than any wild animal.

Finally, we have to fight hard to keep climbing areas open in Iowa. Mainly powerful ($$$) groups of hunters petition the DNR, they don't like us using that public land for dangerous things.
easterniowanewsnow.com/2011…

Tzilla Rapdrilla wrote:I've always found that the people I've known who have been the most interested and infatuated with guns are the ones that I've had the least confidence in their decision making skills. Why should users of public lands be put at mortal risk just by being there from other users who really should be at a firing range. I have also been annoyed as a climber why it's my responsibility to wear orange, "or else" in the fall. I've seen climbing areas closed for a perceived risk of dropping gear or rocks while nitwits are allowed to run around shooting guns in random directions wherever. I have also witnessed consistent violation of the no shooting order in the Rampart Range area every weekend during the summer. Nothing wrong with wasting ammo at a shooting range where the lead contamination will be cleaned up someday, or on private land.

Painting with a broad brush for having such finite view of the subject.

Yee haw! Get you a lycra-skinned rug!

I got me a con-stee-too-shun-all write to arm bears and shoot at any thing I durn well pleeze!

Adam Stackhouse wrote: Painting with a broad brush for having such finite view of the subject.

No, merely summing up what is actually reported on this very thread. And, most of my friends have had unpleasant experiences with irresponsible gun users, either hunters, or those shooting randomly. Furthermore, the repeated violation of the no shooting order at RRR is tantamount to people climbing at Mickey Mouse 5 days/week during the raptor closure. If climbers exhibited the level of disregard for laws that gun users do we would be shut down for good. I've personally witnessed the RRR violations and those are not rare or isolated occurrences.

David N wrote: I can confidently say no one within many miles will be carrying a gun, for any purpose.

Except criminals.

I happen too no that this here Tzilla is an employ-ee of the fedral gubberment.

Probably part of this here ear-responsable Obama conspiracy to take away our pistols and replace them with berth control devices of sum sort.

Wow, very disturbing OP. I got shot at once on my way out of Courthouse Rock an hour west of Phoenix. There are lots of dirt roads that wind all around this area, it could be easy to get very lost at night on these (I have a few friends who can attest to this ;-)

So just missed one turn, and trying to get back to where we came from, suddenly loud shots (I had a car following me, too, or maybe I was following). Somehow, in the confusion and freaking out, we had stopped... I don't know if we got out of the car to confer about where to go, or what, but this crusty old guy with a rifle that looked sawed off started yelling at us about being on private property. He was not cool at all and we tried to just get the hell out of there quickly. He did somehow manage to say that often crazy tweakers trespass all the time. It was an unsettling incident.

Still one of my favorite places out there, I just don't get lost anymore.

muttonface wrote:Ok first; yes, I agree unequivocally that people are more dangerous in every way than animals.

Peolpe are animals

On a side note, many folks here (too many to quote) are talking about the vast majority of gun owners being the responsible ones. I disagree. Maybe the vast majority of "registered" gun owners are responsible (that's why they registered them), but go take a trip to East Cleveland, Aurora CO, Clear Creek County CO, or the NFL for that matter and you'll notice the enormity of unregsitered gun owners. There's a lot of uneducated people out there and putting guns in their hands is a scary thought. Unless I'm wrong, and I'm never wrong, even a few irresponsible gun owners is a few too many.

Ben F wrote: Dave, Colorado and many other states do not require registration. Sales from dealers (in CO and again, many other states) require the instant background check (many states don't require that for CCW holders, since they've already been checked). The only requirement for registration here is for NFA items, but that's federal registration. Never wrong, eh? Even I don't say that. Regardless, just as it's nobody's business what you do in your bedroom, it's nobody's business what you own. I would also suggest that the naysayers here do a little objective research on their own instead of buying into fear-mongering hype. For instance, check the violent crime rates of police officers vs. CCW holders. With an estimated 9 guns in this country for every 10 people, you'd think that our violent crime rate would be even higher. The amount of guns used in crimes as percentage of total guns is miniscule (again, do some homework). I don't like the yahoos around here, including RRR with guns or them there bolt guns, any more than you do. On a side note, if anyone is really serious about reducing violent crime in this country, then you'd be bitching more about ending the WOD instead of firearms.

"unless I'm wrong, and I'm never wrong" is a quote from a movie and was meant to be funny. I guess you didn't get it.
Besides, everybody knows that abortions are what keeps the crime rate down not CCW
Should the government just allow everyone to drive a car whenever they want or should there be steps in place to make sure that they are used as responsibly as possible?

Ben F wrote: OK, I seem to remember hearing that in some flick, but can't remember which one. Now it's definitely funny. On another side note, I agree that the "A word" probably contributes to keeping the crime rate down (along with CCWs! ha) and despite being somewhat disgusted by that, I definitely don't want to ban the "A word." Was that another movie quote you just posted? :)

I think it was the princess bride and it involved the fire swamp.
No other movie quotes, just my attempts at humor.
I'm not disgusted by guns (I own one too). I'm just disgusted by idiots with them.

Tzilla Rapdrilla wrote: ...And, most of my friends have had unpleasant experiences with irresponsible gun users, either hunters, or those shooting randomly...

I would venture a guess that the majority of experiences that anyone has had with irresponsible gun users have been unpleasant.

mobley wrote: ...more people than you think have guns. Usually smart people dont talk/brag about their arsenal so you'll never know.

This. You rarely hear about the responsible gun owners, but don't let that lead you to believe that they don't exist, or that they're the minority.

Dave Meyers wrote: ...even a few irresponsible gun owners is a few too many.

Agreed, but what are the official criteria to determine responsibility to be?

Are all the 'responsible' gun owners hidden away in secret militias somewhere?

Woodchuck ATC wrote:Are all the 'responsible' gun owners hidden away in secret militias somewhere?

They're too busy reloading to post on MP. :) But seriously, I think most gun owners don't broadcast that they own guns and don't get into debates about it. You'll find out whether they're gun owners when you break into their homes. Ouch.

muttonface, a Marine possibly?

muttonface wrote: IMO the criteria is this:...

Agreed, for sure. I was really trying to get to the issue of the difficulties involved in enforcing responsibility.

Edit:

muttonface wrote:Bingo! How would you know that unless you were too? I'm sure the Army has similar safety precautions but to be able to relate the wording of those four rules to being a Marine, you would almost have to have been one too.

I have no military experience, but I learned the same basic rules (the big 4) in my first firearms safety course:

1) Treat the gun as if it is loaded at all times.
2) Never point the gun at anything you're not prepared to destroy.
3) Keep your g*d damn boogerhook off the motherf*cking bang switch until your gun is sighted on your intended target and you're ready to fire.
4) Be aware of your target and what lies beyond it.

Holy Crap retz!! I don't really check in here much anymore, but this is crazy. The Nomad Cave has had gnarly shootist/climber encounters before. If I go somewhere in the desert I always pack a pistol, but Clear Creek Canyon??!! I usually think I'd be okay climbing there. The cops not giving a shit would have fully pissed me off as well. Even if you'd had a gun to return fire with and actually shot them. You'd be in jail for manslaughter most likely, just a lose/lose/lose situation all the way around. Glad you're okay, fuck man!

if you haven't been shot at or 'towards' while climbing, then you are a NOOB. or maybe somebody isn't trying to kill you.