Gear Review - Black Diamond C3s

Nice review John. How would you compare these with the Metolius TCUs? I carry a set of Aliens in the smaller 6 sizes as well as a set of TCUs in the smaller 6 sizes. I love Aliens and was going to replace my TCUs with another set of Aliens, but before doing so I discovered on a climb that my TCU fits in a narrower crack where my same size Alien would not fit. So the TCUs have stayed on my rack.

PS. Have you noticed that in the picture of your BD ATC guide that you have it upside down? The rope going up to the anchor should be coming out the top of the device and the brake hand side of the rope should be coming out the bottom of the ATC (ie. the device needs to be rotated 180degrees clockwise). The braking action is supposed to be down in the opposite direction of the load (which is up). In this picture you would not be able to adequately brake downward (which would also have the rope rubbing along itself), so you would either have to break to the side at 90 degrees to the direction of the load or when you break the opposing load and braking forces would force the ATC in the correct orientation which would cause the belay loop to twist (thereby weakening it) and would also crossload the carabiner.

Great review. I've been slowing acquiring a full set of the C3's (sans the 000 probably). I used the Metolius tri-cams climbing with a friend who has them and while they are fine - i seem to like the trigger mechanism on the C3 cams better. Purely a personal preference on the feel of them for me.

They are a bit pricey, but i felt like the size of the cam head and the feel of them were worth the extra bucks for me.

You can't really compare theme to the Master Cams - they are much wider in the head and are a 4 cam unit.

rockklimber wrote:PS. Have you noticed that in the picture of your BD ATC guide that you have it upside down? The rope going up to the anchor should be coming out the top of the device and the brake hand side of the rope should be coming out the bottom of the ATC (ie. the device needs to be rotated 180degrees clockwise). The braking action is supposed to be down in the opposite direction of the load (which is up). In this picture you would not be able to adequately brake downward (which would also have the rope rubbing along itself), so you would either have to break to the side at 90 degrees to the direction of the load or when you break the opposing load and braking forces would force the ATC in the correct orientation which would cause the belay loop to twist (thereby weakening it) and would also crossload the carabiner.

Thanks for the heads up on that. Its funny how you screw things like this up when you're staging photos...

Does anyone know what the crossover sizes for the blue and yellow TCUs are? Red and yellow? Or is the yellow C3 more like a blue TCU? I know my .4 camalot is slightly larger than the yellow TCU...

Brian in SLC wrote:A direct comparison to Metolius TCU's would be nice...function, placement, especially shallow cracks and/or pin scars, size range, weight.

Although I've only used C3s a few times now, I thought I'd share an interesting anecdote regarding placement.

Last year I removed an old cracked angle protecting the crux of a local route. After removing the pin I could not place Metolius TCUs or FCUs in the pin scar. However, I could get a nice bomber C3 placement in the pin scar in addition to placements above and below.

I thought it was a nice real world example of the different placement possibilities with C3s and an improvement in style. Hence, the piton was not replaced.

John McNamee wrote: I still think the C3 is overpriced. If it was 60.00 and not 70 I would buy them.

$53 at mountaingear, got a set coming! But would not have paid 70

Thanks for the update. I like that price!

Took a 15 footer on a size #0 c3, and it held like a dream. Don't know if I would go any smaller than that though.

As for the cams themselves, I like them. TCU's are awesome, but these guys can go into some pretty weird places. I got the 0, 1, and 2 sizes and have had no problems yet. Haven't noticed an unusually stiff trigger either. Maybe because of the bigger sizes? Teamed up with the new c4 cams, they complement each other well.

Would still get a set of TCU's.

Compared with Metolius TCUs, I prefer the 0, 00, 000 BD C3s to the grey, purple TCUs. But I find that with the c3 1s and 2s, I still like my TCUs (blue, yellow) more. I find the trigger tension to be a small issue, bust mostly the trigger action and the placements appear more stable and less prone to walking/easier to clean with the metolius pieces. I'll try to get some pics to demonstrate this soon.

I tried these as well on a few pitches. I really don't like the trigger system, and don't like the way the cam won't flex side to side. I really like the master cams. Way better unit, and since they are a single stem unit, work in any direction. I definitely recommend master cams for small camming units.

I think a lot depends on the kind of rock you climb on. If the cracks are deep and parallel-sided, head width doesn't matter. If the cracks are shallower and are wiggly, perhaps with internal features, then nothing is more important than head width, since considerations such as flexibility and trigger action are meaningless if you can't place the piece.

If you climb in areas where fitting the cam between obstructions is a feature of many placements, then there is nothing better out there than C3's. (Of course, if you don't have C3's, then you don't know about all the placements you might have been able to make if you did have them.)

These cam fell out of favor on my rack while I was primarially freeclimbing. Now that aid has taken up most of my time, these are back on my rack with a vengence.

They work well (...er... well enough) in pin scars and can often fit into places where my offset mastercams/totem aliens don't always fit.

They work best as a backup cam to offset cams when aiding in pinscars. Definately not my "go to" cam, but more than once, they've saved my ass from having to be more "creative" on the wall.

i love my c3's.

they fit in amazingly weird placements, are totally bomber, and way easier to clean than my tcus.

never noticed an issue with the high spring tension. usually i'm so stoked to find a placement i just grab em and sink the bastards right in.

Must say that i am fully confident in the C3's. I was just starting a climb where my first piece was a size 00. Got about 6 feet above the placement when a hold broke from the wall. I am 6'8'' 165 pounds and took about a 10-12" whip on the 00. Granted, i was pushing my luck because it has a rating of 6 Kn and i was right around that for my force that was generated. So as long as you place them correctly they will work for you. Though i have seen the smaller sizes of a set walk a bit when placed vertically.

rockklimber,
look at the picture again. it will lock fine.
it may run smoother if turned, but does not effect locking.

john,
in your first picture of the purple c3 (2nd picture in post.)
i see that the middle wire (that pulls the middle cam) is hanging
down - popped off of the black plastic cylinder. did you have
many problem with this happening? or has anyone else?

overall they seem great. (the few that i have used.)
i do like how the plastic sleeve protects the wires from being
abused, but am unsure on the wire / cylinder connection.

Ross Mac wrote:Must say that i am fully confident in the C3's. I was just starting a climb where my first piece was a size 00. Got about 6 feet above the placement when a hold broke from the wall. I am 6'8'' 165 pounds and took about a 10-12" whip on the 00. Granted, i was pushing my luck because it has a rating of 6 Kn and i was right around that for my force that was generated. So as long as you place them correctly they will work for you. Though i have seen the smaller sizes of a set walk a bit when placed vertically.

I don't think that means what you think it means.

Ross Mac wrote: I am 6'8'' 165 pounds

You sure about that?

BC Sortor wrote: You sure about that?

LOL, 265. Thanks for the catch brother.