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Which ice ax will give me the most mileage?

Original Post
Harry Netzer · · Roxbury, CT · Joined Dec 2011 · Points: 145

I'm in the market for my first ice ax. General mountaineering is my purpose, but I'm wondering if general mountaineering axes like the Black Diamond Raven are outdated. I want my ax to do everything an Raven can do, but why not go for a tech pick and bend in the shaft so I can take on steep ice? I'm thinking of something like the Grivel Matrix light. Steve House took this type of tool, equipped with a pinky rest, on Nanga Parbat.

So if alpinists had this kind of tool 100 years ago, would the classic pick and straight shaft ever have been invented?

Woodchuck ATC · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Nov 2007 · Points: 3,280

Depends on what your intentions and use are. I hike/mountaineer with a 75-80cm axe. It works for boot belay on steep snowfields and also a nice hiking pole length. If you plan on going steeper and more technical, when then you will probably go for a much shorter tool,55-60cm possibly with a slight curve to it too. But an axe/adze is a must for clearing snow and ice if mountaineering. A hammer head or none if you plan for more vertical stuff. Guessing you might need both long and short tools if combining your difficulty on climbs. Lots of brands out there; plenty of online sites to get one for a bargain price.

Wyatt H · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2010 · Points: 6

For most mountaineering I carry two Grivel Condor self arrest ski poles. They have fold out ice axes that work really well for daggering up slopes or self arrest but normally function as REALLY good trekking poles (the upper handgrip rules for flats and downhills) which is what 90% of mountaineering is. A little on the heavy side, but its multi use. If I expect to need an adze or hammer, I'll take a short semi technical axe like the BD Venom or Petzl Aztarex.

Crag Dweller · · New York, NY · Joined Jul 2006 · Points: 125

Unfortunately, there just isn't a tool out there that is a truly great tool for all terrain. You have to sacrifice performance in one form of terrain for performance in another.

A slightly bent shaft probably isn't too much compromise. But, if you ask my partner who used a standard axe pick to follow 30' of vertical ice on Mt Baker, he'd tell you they suck for that. And, if what they say is true, a reverse curve pick isn't what you want if you may really need to self arrest on steep snow or a glacier.

Kip Kasper · · Bozeman, MT · Joined Feb 2010 · Points: 200

if you're just going to be doing general mountaineering stick with a 70 or 75 cm raven. depends on how tall you are. I sold the one I bought because I found that I wasn't that into snow slogs and had a venom adze that I could use if I somehow got that itch again, however I'd rather take a longer tool, it's easier to plunge, you get better support on talus and snow using it as a walking stick. Buy a general tool, if you decide to move up to more technical stuff you can sell it for almost what you paid for it as long as you don't beat it to shit.

Kai Larson · · Sandy, UT · Joined Jan 2006 · Points: 436
Ben B. wrote:Venoms are pretty rad.. and relatively inexpensive for what they do. A pair will get you up all but the most technical routes, with good technique.
This is true. Venoms are terrific for a broad range of climbing, from non-technical glacier slogs to classic alpine north faces.

If your aspirations lean toward alpine climbing and mountaineering, Venoms are a very good choice.
fossana · · leeds, ut · Joined Apr 2006 · Points: 13,318
Charles Savel wrote:The Grivel Air Tech is an excellent versatile all around tool, in my opinion. I have the 60cm version and used it mountaineering for a season and then bought the Grivel Air Tech Hammer to complete the set for my first season on ice. The combination worked surprisingly well on more vertical ice.
I'm still using the same Air Tech Racing axe I bought 10+ years ago for any significant snow/glacier travel and I'm not one to skimp on gear purchases. On occasion I've looked at newer models but I haven't found anything that makes me want to upgrade.
fossana · · leeds, ut · Joined Apr 2006 · Points: 13,318
Charles Savel wrote:The Grivel Air Tech is an excellent versatile all around tool, in my opinion. I have the 60cm version and used it mountaineering for a season and then bought the Grivel Air Tech Hammer to complete the set for my first season on ice. The combination worked surprisingly well on more vertical ice.
I'm still using the same Air Tech Racing axe I bought 10+ years ago for any significant snow/glacier travel and I'm not one to skimp on gear purchases. On occasion I've looked at newer models (including the Raven), but I haven't found anything that makes me want to upgrade.
J. Amundsen · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2011 · Points: 70

This may not be the answer that you're looking for. I started doing the mountaineering thing about a year ago and I went through a similar decision process.

There isn't a one-size fits all axe. You can try to run the middle ground, but you'll eventually find that you really need at least two axes if for no other reason than you may want both an adze and a hammer.

Depending on how technical you expect things to get, your choices could vary. If you're glacier slogging, consider a lightweight traditional piolet-style straight-shaft with an adze, or the strange whippet-style things that people are using nowadays. However, if you ever find yourself using pickets or pitons you will likely want a tool or axe with a hammer.

The Petzl Summit and BD Venom are a common "middle ground" tool that can be used as stand-in technical tools if necessary (these are essentially equivalent to the mentioned Grivel Matrix light in terms of functionality). They also still plunge into snow more readily than the true technical tools. If you're looking to go further in terms of technical climbing, consider something along the lines of a pair of Petzl Quarks or Black Diamond Vipers.

Keeping all of that in mind, you said you want a general mountaineering axe. I don't consider straight-shaft non-technical pick axes outdated. The longer shaft and less aggressive pick makes for (arguably) a more effective self-arrest tool. They are also (in general) more lightweight than the technical tools. If you go for the shorter middle-ground tools, they will be essentially useless in the cane position on flatter ground.

If you're just getting started, I think it's safe to get a traditional piolet-style axe (BD Raven, for example). You can supplement it with a middle-ground tool (BD Venom, Petzl Summit, Grivel Matrix light) that has a hammer. If things continue to escalate, then you're in Petzl Quark or BD Viper territory, IMO.

M Irving · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2009 · Points: 0

First axe? Go traditional style as in BD Raven or something similar. It'll do everything you need at this point in your career and if you decide to get on the steep stuff you'll be buying different tools anyway. If you're looking at BD Raven vs. BD Raven Pro, the difference is only a couple ounces but the pick on the Raven Pro is about an inch shorter. I figured the extra inch was worth it and went with the regular Raven and like it alot.

JoeP · · Littleton, CO · Joined Sep 2006 · Points: 0
Charles Savel wrote:The Grivel Air Tech is an excellent versatile all around tool, in my opinion. I have the 60cm version and used it mountaineering for a season and then bought the Grivel Air Tech Hammer to complete the set for my first season on ice. The combination worked surprisingly well on more vertical ice.
Not sure I would make a matching set, rather just pair it with a tech tool later on. Regardless, for an axe that gives some added versatility on steep ice, the air tech evo is great. Compare the pick with the BD Raven, and you'll see the difference.
Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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