Don't bother with this one.

Fail

um, no.

What is with all these personal anchor threads? Jesus you guys, all the info you need to make your decision is out there. No amount of arguing or questioning will make a personal tether safer than just tying in with the rope. If you feel you need one for cleaning sport routes, well no one is stopping you from buying it. It's pretty much been established that using it for anything other than this is a boneheaded move.

Good luck.

I'm with yap- you have a rope ? it's pretty pricey ? USE IT
You have a few 24" slings ? I have used his method for 30+years and no one can show a better

'oh it's easier ? no . it's not and...."

It must be PAS springtime fever

Derek W wrote:So I was just thinking about personal anchors and creating big fall factors and forces when you're attached to your anchor. Yes, yes I know you shouldn't climb above your anchor while attached with a personal anchor system (PAS, Purcell, sling, clove-hitched rope, etc.), buuut, I have a hypothetical question. So this makes more sense if talking about a clove-hitched rope or a purcell with the dynamic component, but if you do decide to climb above your anchor, should you extend your connection out and create slack as to decrease your fall factor by increasing your fall length/amount of rope in the system? Seems very counter-intuitive but the math seems to make sense. This is a tongue-in-cheek question and I'm just bored at work, but what do you think?

Jesus guys. Reading comprehension much?

Beware the Killer PAS, you have been warned.

(I'm not getting rid of my PAS)

Yarp wrote:um, no. What is with all these personal anchor threads? Jesus you guys, all the info you need to make your decision is out there. No amount of arguing or questioning will make a personal tether safer than just tying in with the rope. If you feel you need one for cleaning sport routes, well no one is stopping you from buying it. It's pretty much been established that using it for anything other than this is a boneheaded move. Good luck.

Brian Scoggins wrote: Jesus guys. Reading comprehension much?

Yes Brian, I have reading comprehension problems. Please translate the following statement for me so that it makes even a little bit of sense.

Derek W wrote: if you do decide to climb above your anchor, should you extend your connection out and create slack as to decrease your fall factor by increasing your fall length/amount of rope in the system?

Fall factor is only meaningful if your attachment has a significant dynamic component. With a static attachment like a PAS, extending your attachment only increases the force generated from a fall.

Tie in with the fucking climbing rope.

Scott O wrote:Tie in with the fucking climbing rope.

Hmm that seems rather difficult when I am cleaning a single pitch sport route :) Great generic response though...

If you can't figure out how to clean the anchor on a single pitch sport route without climbing above the anchor, then God help you.

dorseyec wrote: Hmm that seems rather difficult when I am cleaning a single pitch sport route :) Great generic response though...

+1

What's up with all the frustrated comments about tying in with the rope on a thread that, wait for it... is specifically about PAS's?

Scott O wrote:If you can't figure out how to clean the anchor on a single pitch sport route without climbing above the anchor, then God help you.

What??? Who said anything about climbing above the anchor? I just said its going to be hard to set up a rappel(and untie from the rope) when you are using the rope to stay anchored in... You make no sense Scott.

Derek W wrote:I have a hypothetical question. So this makes more sense if talking about a clove-hitched rope or a purcell with the dynamic component, but if you do decide to climb above your anchor, should you extend your connection out and create slack as to decrease your fall factor by increasing your fall length/amount of rope in the system? Seems very counter-intuitive but the math seems to make sense. This is a tongue-in-cheek question and I'm just bored at work, but what do you think?

If you fall from from below the anchor, then added slack will increase the fall factor; but, if you fall from above the anchor, then added slack will decrease the fall factor. So, the hypothetical, tongue-in-cheek answer to your hypothetical, tongue-in-cheek question is, climb up to the anchor, then add the slack, then climb above the anchor. Reverse on the way back down.

Jay

troll

Wow, you guys have a bit of built up hostility. Glad I bothered to try an have a friendly conversation. Too bad most of you can't read, I didn't ask what to use or how to use it. I tie in with the rope 99% of the time but it doesn't matter what you attach with. Whatever.

Scott O wrote:Fall factor is only meaningful if your attachment has a significant dynamic component. With a static attachment like a PAS, extending your attachment only increases the force generated from a fall. Tie in with the fucking climbing rope.

Derek W wrote:So this makes more sense if talking about a clove-hitched rope or a purcell with the dynamic component

Yeah, pretty sure I addressed that. Thanks for the pointless response.

I'm not a physicist, but I can say with confidence that there is some bad information out there regarding fall factors.

Simply put, if you are level with the anchor and fall, no matter how much slack you have, it is a factor 1 (meaning the distance fallen is equal to length of rope to absorb said fall).

If you are above the anchor to the full extension of slack in the rope and fall, it is a factor 2, meaning you fall twice the distance of the available rope out to absorb said fall.

Now, when you're leading and place pro in between you and the anchor, the fall is greatly reduced (from a potential 2, unless it's the first pitch where you couldn't fall beyond the belay) because there is significantly more rope out to absorb the fall than there is distance that you'll (hopefully your gear holds) be falling.

Also, bear in mind: regardless of whether or not your tether of choice and/or anchor holds, the energy is certainly going to be transferred somewhere else. Simple physics, the energy doesn't magically disappear. If your system holds, it could be to your spine or other organs instead.

As we say in the ambulance business - and I think this applies rather well to climbing - Keep it simple stupid (KISS).

Hope this helps!

Two long draws or shoulder length slings if needed