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Heavy climber, light belayer

Tzilla Rapdrilla · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jan 2006 · Points: 955

Like everyone said, anchor the belayer to the ground, sling boulders, etc. My 12 year old belays me quite well this way & uses a Gri Gri. It's a lot easier to manage a big load and lower it with a Gri Gri than an ATC. A well trained belayer that doesn't lock the Gri Gri open also gives you more confidence when you're leading with this configuration. Furthermore, the leader should think about their first clip's distance from the ground being how far they're willing to fall before stopping.

logan johnson · · West Copper, Co · Joined Mar 2006 · Points: 315

I have read books that recommend a ground anchor for every single climb you do regardless of climbers/belayers weight or type of climb. Prolly overkill to do for every climb,but still really good advice. Not just in situations with a drastic weight difference (strange line of pull, belaying on a ledge or near boulders etc...)
Skipping clips is never a good idea (especially in the gym where other climbers are in close proximity.)
ALWAYS think about the worst case scenario when setting up a belay stance.

Lou C · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Nov 2011 · Points: 20

I have a similar issue. A person in my group is 95 lbs and I am 175. We have been hooking her to a ground anchor with good success. We hook the anchor into the belay loop so it is almost a direct connection. We anchor to the ground using it's own biner so we do not cross load the biner that holds the belay device. We will be exploring a backpack with rocks when we come to a point where a ground anchor is not possible.
Good luck!

fat cow · · St. Paul, MN · Joined Nov 2009 · Points: 10
Ksween wrote: 2) I always have them anchor to the ground, closing the system by tying into the other end of the climbing rope through their normal tie in points and anchoring with a clove hitch. 3) The dynamic properties of the rope keep them from being jostled too much and the anchoring keeps them from hitting the carabiner on the first draw which could easily cause hand injuries/ dropping your partner.
i cant believe no one had mentioned this yet, tie into the other end and use the rope, its stretchy, gasp!?!?
Robert Fogle · · Juneau, AK · Joined Mar 2012 · Points: 35

Im going through this right now because I take decent size falls sometimes ( over 20 feet ) and I have 80 pounds on my belayer. I use the ABC rule and have her anchored to the ground to her belay loop. I have her belay me off of a gri gri. I have her stay static on the anchor at all times. I have often wondered if the forces generated from opposing pull are harmful to her loop. I really dont think it would be, I understand how belay loops are rated and tested. Anybody have any input on this?

steverett · · Boston, MA · Joined Feb 2012 · Points: 105
johnL wrote: Did you seriously just ask if you can crossload a belay loop?
No, I think he asked if that would generate too much force for the belay loop. And no, it wouldn't.
steverett · · Boston, MA · Joined Feb 2012 · Points: 105
NCRob83 wrote:the forces of being pulled one way on are much different from two ways of pull. That is very different from crossloading.
Fellow engineer here. Do you mean loading in three directions instead of two? This is bad for carabiners since it does end up cross-loading it somewhat, and they are not designed for that type of load. Belay loops, slings, and rappel rings are equally strong in any direction, so they can safely be tri-loaded (provided the loads don't exceed its strength).
joshf · · missoula, mt · Joined Oct 2007 · Points: 790

I've had a lighter belayer in the gym get taken to the first clip while I decked...IMO, its mostly a problem in the gym because there is so little friction from the strait bolt lines. Granted, it can happen outside, but in fairly specific circumstances...overhanging, strait lines etc. If you're worried about it, clip yourself into the ground. I've climbed with people literally half my weight and never had a problem outside, and rarely has it been a problem to make some kind of anchor on the ground for lighter belayers.

sherb · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2012 · Points: 60

I've noticed a lot of the guys here seem concerned about the well-being of their light belayer, and not themselves. Why? I think it is more dangerous for the climber, I think it is so brave to climb with a lighter belayer.

My regular climbing partner is 90lbs heavier than me. While it sounds cool I belay a heavier person, really, the daring one is him, and not me. I get the security of knowing there is a huge margin of error for me if I fall. I get kind of nervous if my belayer is even my weight, and unless I'm on toprope, I won't climb with a belayer significantly lighter than me.

My climbing partner took his first 30-35 foot whipper last weekend, with 6 bolts clipped. I used a gri-gri, which was good because I got pulled to the first clip where the gri-gri prevented me from going up more.

this is what it felt like: he actually announced he was going to fall, when he couldn't clip the next bolt he had reached. I took in the excess slack I had given for him to clip the bolt. I watched him fall for a while, but didn't feel him weighted on the rope for what felt like a really long time. Then, I felt him on the rope. But there was a lot of friction in the system and I didn't get jerked up suddenly, like I do when someone falls from a bolt closer to the ground. I just felt like I was rising slowly, up to the 1st bolt.

Amanda Ramsay · · Aspen, CO · Joined Jul 2009 · Points: 10

I understand how anchoring myself to the ground would be helpful when belaying someone almost twice as heavy (me being 100 lbs), but what would be the best technique when belaying from fixed anchors on a multi-pitch climb? I recently climbed a tower with someone who had 80 lbs on me and it was a bit scary, wondering what would happen if he whipped. We discussed anchoring me into the crack to my side or below me if possible. Any thoughts on this?

FrankPS · · Atascadero, CA · Joined Nov 2009 · Points: 276
Amanda Ramsay wrote:I understand how anchoring myself to the ground would be helpful when belaying someone almost twice as heavy (me being 100 lbs), but what would be the best technique when belaying from fixed anchors on a multi-pitch climb? I recently climbed a tower with someone who had 80 lbs on me and it was a bit scary, wondering what would happen if he whipped. We discussed anchoring me into the crack to my side or below me if possible. Any thoughts on this?
You are clove-hitched into your anchor at the belay on a multi-pitch, right? So if your leader falls (after a piece is clipped), you might get yanked upward, until you come tight against the anchor. Just keep your brake hand on the rope and everything's fine.

Did I miss something in this scenario?

Edit: Are you concerned you won't be able to catch the fall?
Matthew Williams 1 · · Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania · Joined Nov 2014 · Points: 85

Gaines and Long address this in "Climbing Anchors." In this situation at a belay station where the climber far outweighs the belayer (I believe Long recounts giving Lynn Hill a long ride upwards) they highly recommend one piece in the anchor specifically should be set for an upward pull - so you have your three minimum as usual and then a fourth for upward. This could be a nut in a crack oriented upwards or a piece that can take multi-directional pull like a flexible-stemmed cam or tricam. Without it, there's a risk all the placements could be plucked out when pulled upwards (assuming they were passive an placed for a downward/outward pull.)

Joy likes trad · · Southern California · Joined Jul 2012 · Points: 71
KaraFinch wrote:...I think it was my grigri technique that was the problem! I had always been taught when using a grigri that if you want to give out slack quickly you press down the lowering barrel. From this article, this is a no no. ...
This seems likely. I weigh 220+ lbs and have taken whippers with belayers that weigh as little as 150lbs and have never lifted them more than 6 feet or so.
Greg D · · Here · Joined Apr 2006 · Points: 883
Amanda Ramsay wrote:I understand how anchoring myself to the ground would be helpful when belaying someone almost twice as heavy (me being 100 lbs), but what would be the best technique when belaying from fixed anchors on a multi-pitch climb? I recently climbed a tower with someone who had 80 lbs on me and it was a bit scary, wondering what would happen if he whipped. We discussed anchoring me into the crack to my side or below me if possible. Any thoughts on this?
Yes, what Frank said. And, be sure you anchor can resist an upward pull. Either you have at least one or two pieces that are multidirectional or you should add at least one or two pieces specifically for upward pull.
Guy Keesee · · Moorpark, CA · Joined Mar 2008 · Points: 349

Ha.... your anchor had better be strong against an upward pull, or just grab your partner as he wings on past....

csproul · · Pittsboro...sort of, NC · Joined Dec 2009 · Points: 330
gription wrote: This seems likely. I weigh 220+ lbs and have taken whippers with belayers that weigh as little as 150lbs and have never lifted them more than 6 feet or so.
Really? I weigh around 150 and when my partners that weigh >180 take falls, I routinely get lifted more than 6ft unless I actively sit down on the rope...which of course, I rarely do.
Joy likes trad · · Southern California · Joined Jul 2012 · Points: 71
csproul wrote: Really? I weigh around 150 and when my partners that weigh >180 take falls, I routinely get lifted more than 6ft unless I actively sit down on the rope...which of course, I rarely do.
Strange...I have never caused somebody to hit the first anchor like I said I think about six feet is the highest I ever lifted anybody. I also don't mind the weight disparity since I always get a soft catch.
csproul · · Pittsboro...sort of, NC · Joined Dec 2009 · Points: 330
gription wrote: Strange...I have never caused somebody to hit the first anchor like I said I think about six feet is the highest I ever lifted anybody. I also don't mind the weight disparity since I always get a soft catch.
I guess it has been rare that I've hit the first bolt. True on the soft catch. If you're over 200 lbs you're probably getting one from me whether you want it or not!
Alex Bury · · Ojai, CA · Joined Jun 2012 · Points: 2,376

A lot of sketchy advice on this thread...

"The first clip is as much for the belayer/anchor as it is for the leader."

Ummm no. Pulling the belayer into the first piece is a great way to compromise the belay, and dirt the climber.

rgold · · Poughkeepsie, NY · Joined Feb 2008 · Points: 526

Getting pulled into the first bolt is a prescription for belayer hand injury and also possibly a dropped leader. Studies by the CAI reveal that there is almost no load reduction advantage in being lifted more than about a meter, so the best solution is probably a ground anchor with perhaps four feet of slack in it to allow for some lifting. The the ground anchor strand should run from the harness connection over the same hip as the brake hand so that the belayer isn't spun around and remains in a natural position while being lifted.

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

Sport Climbing
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