Nomic (ice pick) modification
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This is an idea I have been toying with for a few days. I'm interested on others feed back before I improve/screw up my pick. |
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the fact that the cassins displace less ice probably isn't solely the result of the pick shape. It is a combination of the shape of the pick, the swing of the tool, and the geometry of the pick to the tool itself. give it a try but no nomic will swing the same way that a x-mountain will. |
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Hi Mike, |
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When you say that you round off the pick, do you mean that you round the angled tip that transitions from the point of the pick up to the upper blade? |
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I had a very similar thought when I first climbed with the Cassins. I believe that part of what makes them stick so well is good geometry at the end of the pick. |
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Let me start by saying I am fairly new to ice climbing and this is my 1st set of ice tools. I picked up an older set of nomics with astro picks a coupe months ago, the picks were in bad shape. The first time out with them they shattered the ice and did not stick well. I read Dane's post referred to above and some others. I cheched the pick thickness and found it to be at 4mm so I filled both sides of the pick untill I was at 3mm. Then removed the first tooth as it was very close to the tip due to being sharpened many times. I also made the first few teeth shorter and then reworked the angles on the teeth to a tapper on all sides. The picks stick much better and clean easy, I am much happier with them now. Note the picks were in very bad shape. |
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Dobson did the same modification to my Nomics and they work very well. On the other hand, I don't do it myself beacause I don't have a belt grinder and I am impatient. |
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I wouldn't use a power grinder to mod climbing equipment, not only will you fuck up the temper but it's just too easy to take off too much metal. A standard metal file works well and you'll have more control and there's no chance of weakening the metal. |
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Keenan Waeschle wrote:I wouldn't use a power grinder to mod climbing equipment, not only will you fuck up the temper but it's just too easy to take off too much metal. A standard metal file works well and you'll have more control and there's no chance of weakening the metal.That is a good cautionary statement. I don't want people to go modify their tools with a dremel or bench grinder. Bench grinders run much too fast, and cut poorly. They are hard to control, and overheat the blade, potentially ruining the heat treat. However, professional-level belt grinders are in a whole different league. They are designed to cut metal smoothly and precisely without heating the steel. With a fresh belt and low speed, it is possible to get more precise geometry than even hand sanding can accomplish (the blade stays cooler, too). Compared to grinding a straight razor with a two-thousandths inch thick blade, climbing picks are casual. After all, the picks were ground on a machine in the factory in the first place. Very roughly ground at that. |
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Mike Washburn wrote:I definitely like the nomics better, but if I could try the cassin picks on the nomic...It's been done. Joe Szot (upstate NY uber-hardman) has a CAMP Awax pick (the precursor to the Cassin tools) on his Nomic. Ian Osteyee is one of the local guides and he made the modification. You can ask him about it: ianosteyee@adirondackmountainguides.com |
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I have had good results with an small angle grinder with a sanding disk instead of a stone wheel :)) |
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If you have concerns about the lack of the previous Cascade picks being available there is a contact at Petzl and some discussion here: |
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I contacted a source at petzl America and he informed me that the cascade picks are DONE no more ;( so if you can buy up what ever you can find and or get antiquated with shaping the new style "ice" picks to your liking... |
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This is the content I got from Petzl a few days ago. |
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Rob Man wrote:I contacted a source at petzl America and he informed me that the cascade picks are DONE no more ;( so if you can buy up what ever you can find and or get antiquated with shaping the new style "ice" picks to your liking...Can you post the email? This is opposite of what a rep from Petzl USA said to me. |
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Divna, |
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Thanks, Rob! I think I got confused. Petzl has discontinued Cascade pick for Nomic, but not for the old Quark. It's funny, if you look closely, you can easy refit the Quark Cascade pick to both new and old Nomics. |
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So it seems the new Nomic pick is not optimal for waterfall ice. How about that same pick on the Quark? So far, I have used the quark and the cobra for comparison, and the Quark does not seems to penetrate the ice as the cobra. To be fair, these two tools are configurated differently. |
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Bang, |
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Rob Man wrote:Bang, Does your pick say "ice" or "cascade" on it? The cascade pick, when sharp is the best on water ice IMO. The ice pick is works better on mixed/ dry and not as good on water iceHi Rob, Yeah they are the ICE pick on the new quark. I figure people using NOMIC need to modify it because of the NOMIC's aggressive swing comparing to the Quarks. I have not use the quark extensively enough to justify whether I need to do the mod or not on pure ice. |
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I just detuned the first tooth on the ice picks for the nomics like dane suggested and they climb and clean way better than my old BD tools, the swing has a very pronounced wrist flick at the end, takes a little getting used to but I had pretty much figured it out after on pitch. |