What do you carry peak bagging
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A good plan |
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apeman e wrote: Oh really? Show us the proof. I bet you'd be surprised what the current literature suggests. I know I was.Up to a 26% reduction in peak force. Lol...Nope, not really surprised. They DO decrease peak load. As shown in this extensive test completed by what I would call a fairly reputable company who does not even produce any type of screamer. In other words, They are saying their competition is doing a good job making good products. Doubt that there is any bias in there. Are you surprised? Enough proof? blackdiamondequipment.com/e… What literature are you speaking of? |
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Im basing my information on controlled testing. Not someone falling on piece and saying it works or otherwise. The only real world application of a screamer in my opinion is on the first screw or the first 2 placed. Where there is simply not enough rope out to absorb much of the energy, the screamer can act in place of the dynamic rope. I agree that there is absolutely NO need to place them on every screw or every pin. For sure. But they do have their place right off the deck. I dont think they do much to help a weak placement. Although they should, in theory, slightly. However they do act as a buffer. Falling right off the deck places a ton of force on you and your pro due to lack of usable rope to absorb the energy. i find it hilarious that everyone associate screamer with climber that fall often. Thats like saying everyone driving around with an airbag in their car crashes often. Its simply not so. And its a horrible generalization. If a partner of mine clips a screamer...good for him. I dont use em...But that doesnt mean I dont believe they have their place. I dont think there is a need to have 6 of them hanging off your gear loop. |
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The Black Diamond study. To Screamer or not to Screamer? Results: 2-foot Factor 0.36 Fall on to 1st Piece of Gear |
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Thanks Diva....that is the data I was speaking of. Cant argue that. |
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sure you can... |
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lol...thats not a very good arguement regarding the potential of a screamer to reduce the peak force of a fall. And if your not falling your not trying hard enough. |
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superkick wrote:sure you can... dont fallWhy bother with that dumb rope thingy then. |
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indeed david... |
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superkick wrote:indeed david... and cms..saying that if you arent falling you arent trying hard enugh, might be one of the dumbest things ive ever seen written regarding mountaineering.Whos said anything about "mountaineering"? Cause im fairly certain i did not. you've never heard that before?? It's a saying. And I'm fairly certain no one says that pertaining to general mountaineering or lead, especially on ice where falls are completely unacceptable. Look at boulderers, sport climbers, and tr's. Push your limit and learn how to climb at your limit. Obviously this means along the way, your going to take some falls. Are you implying that you don't fall? Ever? Not once? Cause if not I think I want your autograph. The worlds top climbers fall repeatedly. Why? Because they're pushin themselves. I think you need to tell Sharma, Gadd, and Anker your awesome new secret. Cause damn, theyve been doin it wrong this whole time. I'm not talking about taking a crevasse fall or making a technical error. I'm speaking in terms of the difficultly of the climb. Saying that's one of the dumbest things you've ever heard and implying that I was speaking of mountaineering, is def one of the dumbest replies I've seen yet on this forum. Saying don't fall, is like saying don't get into a car accident, ever. Shit happens. I don't know what you climb but I took maybe 3 falls on toprope this weekend working a new mixed route in the dacks around m7. I guess I'm a shitty climber, or apparently just dumb and im fairly certain David was not agreeing with you, rather asking you why YOU bother to use a rope, if your motto is...simply...dont fall. If it was that simple....this would be a rather boring sport that to be honest, would not interest me in the least bit. |
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why would you not be talking about mountaineering specifically in the mountaineering forum... |
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BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA Because who would bring screamers on a general mtneering route? Maybe for the ice on Liberty Ridge. LOL I dont even have to directly reply to a post like that. You said it all for me. Carry on. You seem like a real stand up guy. Too bad your in the northeast. I hope I never have to carry your butt out. |
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superkick wrote:I dont use a rope very often besides glacial travel as far as mountaineering is concerned.What a silly argument this is. Yes, when you are climbing without a rope screamers aren't going to help you. I would suggest leaving your harness at home too. Yes, on easy terrain it is often safer (faster) to climb without a rope. On harder terrain, meaning mountaineering involving hard for you ice or mixed climbing, if the gear is tiny nuts or screws in suspect ice, a screamer reduces the peak load and therefor may help if you fall. Place it if you want to carry the extra weight for some risk mitigation while ice climbing on a mountaineering route. If you only use a rope to cross glaciers and not for the actual climbing then screamers are obviously useless to you. |
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Im done with this argument. David summed it up. Thanks dude. Regardless, superkick, your turning this into an argument that was never an argument to begin with. Who the hell began talking about climbing ropeless? And who the heck said anything about me climbing the DC? You. And if you knew anything about my experience, I think you would change your tone. With that said. good luck to you. I personally dont care whether or not you choose to use screamers as they were intended, or even a rope. Do your thing dude. Its all you. |
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The need of a rope is objective based. And your own level of confidence..and a partners level if you have one. I didnt say never use a rope..I said most times... On a route with sustained periods of near vertical ice, or sustained periods of technical alpine rock climbing...sure. On easy or moderate routes, or a moderate route with short periods of non vertical ice. probably not. |
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Lol...If you remember...I dont even own one. Your arguing that a piece of gear is used to simply instill confidence, which could then be said about every piece of hardware ever made... In which case you might as well donate your entire rack to me. I'll put it to good use. I am simply trying to HELP you realize that they are not useless and do not simply "make up for lack of confidence" in climbers who use them. I was not trying to argue from the start, however your ignorance seems to of cause you to ignore the hard evidence that a major gear MFG unassociated with Yates put out. That SHOULD of been the end of the conversation right there. If you recall it wasnt I that wouldnt "let the subject go". That would be you. You cannot deny proof. If you could, we could all sit here and argue each piece of gear we each choose to use. In closing, in certain instances, even you yourself MAY benefit from the several ounces of "extra" weight. It may even save your ass one day. Considering Im beginning to put up new routes in the middle of no where working with a well known guidebook author, I plan on buying a couple. If it saves my butt once, it was money well spent and weight worth carrying. All this was to provide the truth, not to bicker about other useless crap. |
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I love people who argue for the use of things they dont even own... |
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LMAO...that is your reply? I have owned them, I have used them, I do understand how they work and I do know they work because factual testing doesnt lie. dude...Get a grip on yourself. No longer feel the need to help you understand so...cya |
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Factual testing is now a once run limited study, done by engineers and not physicists? A study that states, "Our limited testing does show, however, that a Screamer (or similar energy absorbing device) COULD reduce the peak force that the piece is subjected to by up to 26%." |
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Holy crap dude.... your insane! |