Removal of Half Dome cables?

I was reading this article today and can see both sides of it. But I have done the hike 5 times and have never seen as many people as this article claims does it every day.
But what do ya'll think about this hike being erased or limited?

news.yahoo.com/yosemite-pla…

Didn't they just implement a permit system recently to limit the number of hikers? I think a reasonable limit is a good idea. And they can define "reasonable." I think taking down the cables is a bad idea, but I'm sure there are plenty of people that say the cables aren't natural, they encourage people to go up that shouldn't, etc.

Having done the hike I think something definitely needs to change. Did they ever end up enacting the permit system to limit it to a certain number of hikers per day? I like the idea of no cables, but only because I would comfortably be able to solo it. I think it would be a disservice to the 98% of people who aren't competent enough to solo it to remove the cables being that it's a highly popular, fabled hike.

The impact (both environmental and visual) is pretty substantial in terms of the drilling of the handrails, the destruction of the few trees left on top for fires (climbers also play a part in this), the mountain of rotting gloves at the base of the cable, etc. Limiting the amount of visitors and educating them about leave no trace is a better option in my opinion.

I heard Hayden Kennedy and Jason Kruk did the Cable Route and only touched the cables twice. They decided, based on current climbing ethics, they were going to chop the route.

I like the idea of removing the cables. It would cut down on the crowds without any administrative hassle, and anyone who got to the summit would probably be capable of getting back down by themselves in the event of a sudden storm. It might cut down the crowds on Snake Dike, too.

I don't know numbers, but there are enough people traipsing up that trail every day in summer to warrant a couple of back country toilets, all of which have to be cleaned out every so often. Cut down the crowds on Half Dome and you reduce the need to clean out those toilets, which saves a little more money. YOSAR also evacuates people on a fairly regular basis, usually for sprained ankles or other slip and fall type accidents, at some cost to the taxpayers. All of this creates a circus type atmosphere that I find incompatible with any kind of wilderness or backcountry experience. Cut down the crowds and the people who do walk up there will be a little more self-reliant and probably a little more respectful of the world that they are traveling in.

Backcountry permits and quotas have their place, but they have a way of detracting from the whole wilderness experience. Removing artificial aids to access is a much more cost effective way of reducing user impacts, and creates a much more meaningful experience for the people who do walk up Half Dome.

I think the "remove the cables" argument/discussion is similar to bolt chopping discussions.

"It's not natural."

"You don't need those bolts (cables) to climb this."

"It's damaging the rock."

And so it goes. No one is right and everyone is right. But the OP did ask for opinions...

this summer, I'm totally gonna climb the cable route w/o touching them and on the way down I'm gonna chop the m'fkers down... just like they did on cero toree.

Beagle wrote:this summer, I'm totally gonna climb the cable route w/o touching them and on the way down I'm gonna chop the m'fkers down... just like they did on cero toree.

muttonface wrote:You should do that on Cerro Torre too.

Like!

Chop the cables but install a zip line for us climbers to get down.

If they limit hikers, use permits, chop the cables, well next will be a limit on climbers and what/where we can go and do. Danger!

I figure the cables are already there, so they might as well stay there. The main concern isn't damage to half dome, it's the safety of the tourists. As long as the tourists aren't damaging half dome and the surrounding area I think it's great that it is accessible to people who otherwise wouldn't get to experience it.

With that said, if the amount of tourists begins to have a seriously negative impact on the environment, go ahead and remove the cables.

Or go ahead and remove the cables anyway. I can still get up there :)

I always thought those cables were an eye sore. If they are to be there they should be Via ferrata style and not a handrail. The holes are there already but the via ferrata style is a little more technical than a handrail that gives false security. That way the hikers need a harness at it would cut down Yosar's needless rescues and if you are a boss climber just walk up.

The route is of historic importance, and I guess only six people have died falling from the route since it was put up in 1919. Seems pretty safe, considering the number of people killed on the valley floor of everything from car accidents to floods to murder. Maybe safety isn't the issue. I need to read up on it.

Still, if I didn't know how (or have an interest in learning how) to climb technical rock, I think this would be a great and exciting challenge.

Should they take the chains off of Angel's Landing in Zion? A much less obtrusive example, but I don't think so.

EDIT: Via Ferrata?...I dunno. Then only Euro-douches and climbers would make it to the summit since nobody in the US knows what the hell that is. Gear manufacturers would be elated, tho...

Mark Felber wrote:I like the idea of removing the cables. It would cut down on the crowds without any administrative hassle, and anyone who got to the summit would probably be capable of getting back down by themselves in the event of a sudden storm. It might cut down the crowds on Snake Dike, too. I don't know numbers, but there are enough people traipsing up that trail every day in summer to warrant a couple of back country toilets, all of which have to be cleaned out every so often. Cut down the crowds on Half Dome and you reduce the need to clean out those toilets, which saves a little more money. YOSAR also evacuates people on a fairly regular basis, usually for sprained ankles or other slip and fall type accidents, at some cost to the taxpayers. All of this creates a circus type atmosphere that I find incompatible with any kind of wilderness or backcountry experience. Cut down the crowds and the people who do walk up there will be a little more self-reliant and probably a little more respectful of the world that they are traveling in. Backcountry permits and quotas have their place, but they have a way of detracting from the whole wilderness experience. Removing artificial aids to access is a much more cost effective way of reducing user impacts, and creates a much more meaningful experience for the people who do walk up Half Dome.

Sure, financially it makes sense, but can you put a price on the emotional aspect? Arguably my favorite childhood memory is backpacking through Yosemite with my dad as an 11 year old and finishing the trip at Half Dome. If those cables hadn't been there, I don't know that I could have made it up at age 11. Do you want to take that experience away from people?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not 100% against changing regulations/removing the cables, I just want to point out that there is a lot more that goes into it than the financial aspect.

Taylor Ogden wrote: Arguably my favorite childhood memory is backpacking through Yosemite with my dad as an 11 year old and finishing the trip at Half Dome.

It's one of my favorite childhood memories as well. My parents frequently remind me that I may not have started climbing if not for the cables. It was a formative experience for me.

I think changing it to a via ferrata is a reasonable possibility. The difficulty is that Europeans do via ferratas all the time, and are used to them. As one of the only via ferratas in America, there will likely still be accidents due to inexperience.

Colin Simon wrote: It's one of my favorite childhood memories as well. My parents frequently remind me that I may not have started climbing if not for the cables. It was a formative experience for me. I think changing it to a via ferrata is a reasonable possibility. The difficulty is that Europeans do via ferratas all the time, and are used to them. As one of the only via ferratas in America, there will likely still be accidents due to inexperience.

I too was 11 when I did the cables for the first time, and I also began to explore the world of climbing soon afterwards. I have decided that I have no beef with the permits. But I say leave the cables up there. Maybe get rid of the pile of rotting leather gloves. Tourist safety can't be completely solved. Just look at those who climb over the rails above Vernal Falls despite the rails and clearly posted signs warning of danger.

Removing the cables would (in my opinion) just eventually cause bolts and chain rappels to be added which again would raise a firestorm.

And I believe Royal Robbins actually did walk down this slab without touching at; and I'll bet many others have done it too.

I just wonder who decides what the appropriate permit number would be?

Meh. It will never happen. I wish it would, but it will never happen. Too much of a money maker for the NPS, now that they can charge for each head going up the cables.

Consider how polished the cables route is. After climbing the Snake Dike, descending the cables was way more sketchy. Sticky rubber shouldn't squeak on granite.

Think if they did remove the cables.

If you did an aid climb on the face would you really want to descend that mirror finish with a haul bag on your back without a cable nearby? If I was taking somebody up the route who could handle going down the cables but maybe not the polished slab around the cables, I would probably summit and then rappel down the Snake Dike. Which would be really fun for other parties. I predict snake dike with it's bolted anchors would become a descent highway.

Cables, bolts and all artificial aid placements bother me...That is why I am advocatiing chipping bucket holds on the SE ridge of Cerro Torre and replacing the cables with cut steps all the way up Half Dome. Anyone know if Maestri's compressor still works? If so, what type of air fittings do I need? We can probably use at Half Dome afterwards.

I am more intrigued by the idea of limiting car access briefly mentioned in the article. I've been to Zion National Park and thought the mandatory bus system to be a very reasonable method for limiting traffic, noise, and air pollution, all of which are documented problems at Yosemite.

As for if the cables were removed, I don't see why aid climbers couldn't still rappel the cables route instead of Snake Dike. I imagine the system would be similar to that on Longs Peak, where the cables are gone and the eyebolts that supported them remain to be used for rappels.

Read this and then see how you feel about taking down the cables. For many non climbers doing the cables is a big deal and a high point of their life. supertopo.com/tr/Half-Dome-…