Another HYP/hangboard question
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Will S wrote:Here's a different question, would be nice to get you hangers' feedback. I've been doing dedicated hangboard cycles for 4 years or so, typically 3 phases per calendar year. And I continue to get stronger, typically passing my previous bests by about 5-10lb at the end of each phase.For those of you who are seeing gains from cycle to cycle are you using an additional 5-10lb more than the last cycle through the entire 3 sets or just the last set? I'm assuming that the 7/6/5 rep advanced hangboard workout detailed in the Rockprodigy article. |
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i keep track of each set individually so for example, let's say on 'grip A'; |
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sample workout chart
so - blue 'e' means it was too easy green 'x' means it was about right yellow 'xb' means i barely got it, increase weight with caution red 'f#' means i failed on reps # such and such you can see where i crossed out some weight values. sometimes i do this on the fly, depending on if i am feeling stronger than i had predicted, or weaker than i predicted. if the number crossed out is blue, it means that i decided to increase the difficulty. if it is in red, it probably means i realized i was going to get my a$$ kicked, and turned it down a notch. |
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I understand that you should be increasing the weight per set as the reps are decreasing, but when you pass last cycles personal best by 10lbs have you increased the weight by 10lbs on grip A so that the first set is now 22.5lbs second set 25lbs and third set 37.5lbs? or is it that sets 1 and 2 are 5lbs heavier than your last cycle personal best while set 3 is 10 lbs heavier? Sorry if I wasn't clear, and I mean cycle as in the 4 month Endurance/Hyp/Max R/PE/Rest cycle. |
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ok, i think i understand the question better. i think it will vary from person to person, also it will totally vary on how you have your sets structured. with the 7/6/5 rep protocol, i imagine that your increase will be similar for each set (ie if you got stronger by 10 lbs on the 7 rep set, you would probably get stronger by pretty close to 10 lbs on the 6 and 5 sets). this will of course vary from grip to grip though, and it will vary due to the number of cycles you have done. |
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Any thoughts on whether hang times/rest intervals would be different if someone is only training for bouldering? |
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Thanks slim that makes sense, in this thread and in mountainproject.com/v/perio… people were talking about how many lbs stronger they were from the previous season and I wanted to clarify so I have an idea of where I should be next year (this is the first time I am trying a periodized training cycle). |
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camhead wrote: I actually do use a sort of sloper at the very end of my workout, it's a large, 45 degree downward sloping edge on an old Metolius board that is big enough to get your whole palm on. I mostly only hang on it with 2 1/2 or 2 pads, though, so it's not really what one would think of as a "sloper."My anecdotal experience with hangboarding on slopers is in line with Monomaniac - not worth the time and energy. When I started hangboarding I used a large sloper for the last set. Once I got to 50 lbs of weight I quit training that grip, I did note that I was able to hang one handed on it whereas before I was never able to. Fast forward several months, I haven't touched that grip at all and can still easily hang one handed from it. I would be willing to bet that I can still do my previous max. It seems like training other grips (edges, crimps, pockets) is at minimum allowing me to maintain the sloper strength and possibly improving it. |
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Great stuff here guys, getting me motivated to build a new hang board. |
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Kevin Stricker wrote:Great stuff here guys, getting me motivated to build a new hang board. Regarding the 1.5" campus crack, I found out from personal experience that it is a bad idea. I built one in one of my first walls over 15 years ago that really helped teach me tight hands, but then we started campusing the thing as a party trick. Anyways I either dislocated or broke a small bone in my hand campusing it one day and to this day a bone in my hand pops out of alignment when I do lots of hammering or crack climbing. Basically a big knot forms about 3/4 of the way between my first nuckle and wrist and hurts like hell tell it gets back in alignment.Whoa, good to know. I am still intrigued at some sort of crack training system, just in order to isolate sizes that you're bad at, but maybe trying to campus those sizes would be a bit much. And in the end, crack climbing tends to be more about technique than pure physical strength. Most strong crack climbers today are strong sport climbers who transition over to cracks fairly easy, and I'd imagine without any specialized training (with the notable exception of those British Wide Boyz and their basement offwidth). Regarding the sloper discussions above, I skipped the slopers last night, and, for my final grip, I instead just used a simple, biggish, slightly incut edge (comfortable one pad). Because of the incut, I didn't constantly have the feeling of squelching off that I'd been getting around the 3rd or 4th reps on the sloper, but with 20 lbs on and at the end of the night, it still took me to the point of total muscle failure by the final set. So, more productive, I think. One more question, while we're at it: what do y'all think of barbell finger rolls? |
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i'll try to get some pics of my crack stuff in the next few days. i agree that crack climbing is very technique dependent, but at some point you get diminishing returns on working on technique (ie when your technique gets to a certain level how much better can your technique get?). a good thing about the crack devices is that you can work on both at the same time. also, you can get a head start on desert season and not have to waste a few trips getting dialed in. |
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camhead wrote: Whoa, good to know. I am still intrigued at some sort of crack training system, just in order to isolate sizes that you're bad at, but maybe trying to campus those sizes would be a bit much. And in the end, crack climbing tends to be more about technique than pure physical strength. Most strong crack climbers today are strong sport climbers who transition over to cracks fairly easy, and I'd imagine without any specialized training (with the notable exception of those British Wide Boyz and their basement offwidth). Regarding the sloper discussions above, I skipped the slopers last night, and, for my final grip, I instead just used a simple, biggish, slightly incut edge (comfortable one pad). Because of the incut, I didn't constantly have the feeling of squelching off that I'd been getting around the 3rd or 4th reps on the sloper, but with 20 lbs on and at the end of the night, it still took me to the point of total muscle failure by the final set. So, more productive, I think. One more question, while we're at it: what do y'all think of barbell finger rolls?I did them for awhile, but was also just starting back at hangboarding and other training so I can't isolate what caused my improvements. I never felt like they were doing anything for me, it just didn't seem to be effective. I think doing a one rep max on a few hangboard grips is a better option and I am seeing positive results with them. I can add 2.5 - 5 lbs pretty consistently and am adding a staggering amount of weight on for my smallest hold. |
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slim wrote:i'll try to get some pics of my crack stuff in the next few days. i agree that crack climbing is very technique dependent, but at some point you get diminishing returns on working on technique (ie when your technique gets to a certain level how much better can your technique get?). a good thing about the crack devices is that you can work on both at the same time. also, you can get a head start on desert season and not have to waste a few trips getting dialed in.Yeah, I agree. And crack technique seems much more binary, "either you have it or you don't" than, say, slab technique. I haven't been back to the Creek in nearly five years (damn, it's been that long?), but I've improved as a climber in nearly every way since I moved out East; power, strength, endurance, even crack technique in some ways. It would be interesting to go back to the Creek and see if my RRG endurance actually helps on crack endurance. |
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camhead wrote: One more question, while we're at it: what do y'all think of barbell finger rolls?http://www.mountainproject.com/scripts/Search?query=heavy+finger+rolls |
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The training threads have definitely been interesting lately, and I want to throw another idea out there. Im not sure I buy repeaters as the best way to increase finger strength (or Hyp or whatever). I say this because of all the training materials I have read, I cant find many recommendations for using repeaters for finger strength other than the Rockprodigy article, the Beastmaker site, and Eric Horst. |
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Dave Macleods take on hypertrophy is : Hypertrophy happens after many months and years of exposing a muscle to a certain type of force. Monomaniac wrote:The impetus for change at the time was that I found I was really good at PE and generally sucked at power, so I wanted to move my Hyp training more toward the direction of MaxR. |
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in the past, when i didn't have access to bouldering or a campus board, i used a method similar to DM etc for a MR phase and it worked pretty well. i would have to go back to my notes, but i think it was something like 5 on 25 off X 4, 3 sets of 5 grips. |
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JLP wrote: My related question, if you have truly trained hypertrophy, shouldn't your arm get bigger? Have any of you actually measured and/or tracked your forearm circumference?Actually, yes. Not tracked, but measured a few times over the years that I've been training seriously and they are bigger. The subject is ridiculously complex, being multi-variate. That said, I'd recommend this paper/thesis, specifically Chapter 2 the review of lit. The takeaway is that in the first couple of months, the gains are mainly neurological, the remainder of the first year they are primarily hypertrophy related, and then a third round of mostly neurological comes into play. digitalcommons.uconn.edu/cg… To add to the complexity, we're dealing with isometrics where the neural effects are even more complicated than concentric/eccentric. And BTW, MacCleod is, to put it nicely, way off base WRT hypertrophy. There are many, many studies that show significant hypertrophy within months in untrained subjects. A sample: research conducted by MacDougall et al, in which untrained young men increased the muscle fiber area in their triceps brachii by 33% and 27% in Type II and Type I fiber respectively after six months of resistance training. |
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JLP wrote: That's kind of where my head is at here as well. I'm aware of the Anderson resumes (sample of 2), but there are also a lot of 11's and 12's in the profiles above - not exactly elite - just has to be said to keep things honest here, IMO. Lots of 12 and 13 climbers out there who basically just climb. My related question - if you have truly trained hypertrophy, shouldn't your arm get bigger? Have any of you actually measured and/or tracked your forearm circumference? Not that some great advice and very good data points haven't come out here and in other threads - by everyone. I just don't think the common of what is being conveyed is a panacea.Well, Ryan Palo has had pretty significant gains with high reps (3 sets of 7x7, 6x7, 5x7 per grip). So, sample size of 3. powercompanyclimbing.com/se… I'm still very much experimenting with what will work for me, and yeah, in future cycles I might try fewer reps and more weight. I'm really looking forward to see if/how this will improve my spring season. And, my profile on here is pretty sparse, and doesn't reflect my climbing resume :) |
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So a few things have come up, I wrote the following in response to some questions in the Powercompanyclimbing site: |