Climbing with strangers

Honestly, if you are asking this question I might be inclined to not climb with you...

Finding a partner on the internet? Seriously?

If someone tries to find a partner on the internet they are noobs and probably get the belay they deserve. Don't you have a local climbing area? A gym at the very least?

Here is the perfect way to get a belay (I do it every summer and it works at least 75% of the time). It was shown to me by a stone master and has been employed for many, many, many, years.

Show up at the crag and act frustrated that your partner is not there yet. When someone asks if you need a belay politely decline saying you are still waiting for your partner to show up. Wait until the party you are watching has finished struggling on their "project" where-upon you politely ask if they want you to clean it for them (out of courtesy, of course). This will be your warm up. After you have cleaned their project begin lamenting on how much money/time/gas you have wasted in the process and how you will never forgive your non-existent climbing partner for ditching you. This should earn you enough sympathy credits to ask for a long working belay or a red point belay depending on where you are at on you own project. Now you know people. Now you don't have to cruise the internet noobdom looking for other lonely noobs to be friends with.

Of course, for this to work, you have to actually know what you are doing in the climbing world. Do you?????

If this doesn't work, try bouldering. Lots of weird outcasts to bond with there.

Johny Q wrote:Honestly, if you are asking this question I might be inclined to not climb with you... Finding a partner on the internet? Seriously? If someone tries to find a partner on the internet they are noobs and probably get the belay they deserve. Don't you have a local climbing area? A gym at the very least? Here is the perfect way to get a belay (I do it every summer and it works at least 75% of the time). It was shown to me by a stone master and has been employed for many, many, many, years. Show up at the crag and act frustrated that your partner is not there yet. When someone asks if you need a belay politely decline saying you are still waiting for your partner to show up. Wait until the party you are watching has finished struggling on their "project" where-upon you politely ask if they want you to clean it for them (out of courtesy, of course). This will be your warm up. After you have cleaned their project begin lamenting on how much money/time/gas you have wasted in the process and how you will never forgive your non-existent climbing partner for ditching you. This should earn you enough sympathy credits to ask for a long working belay or a red point belay depending on where you are at on you own project. Now you know people. Now you don't have to cruise the internet noobdom looking for other lonely noobs to be friends with. Of course, for this to work, you have to actually know what you are doing in the climbing world. Do you????? If this doesn't work, try bouldering. Lots of weird outcasts to bond with there.

Your advice only proves you didn't follow rule number 1 on mountain project. You are the kind of climber I DON'T want to go out with. Thanks for showing your true colors!

It appears most folks on here are positive about linking up with strangers. Thanks for the advice... It gets rough being a social intravert! Too bad I'm not a total badass like Johnny Q!

Climbing with Strangers: Isn't that where you sit on both of your arms at the base of the route until your hands go numb, and then attempt to send your proj?

Maybe then you can pretend they are Sharma's hands instead of yours.

Shortly after I started climbing I put a post on MP stating I was looking for partners and mentors. I got exactly one response. This one individual has the best thing that could have ever happened for my climbing career. Aside from being an excellent mentor, he also introduced me to dozens of other climbing partners of some of whom I've become excellent friends with. Climbing with strangers can be hit or miss, but you certainly can create some excellent partnerships.

Randy W. wrote: Your advice only proves you didn't follow rule number 1 on mountain project. You are the kind of climber I DON'T want to go out with. Thanks for showing your true colors! It appears most folks on here are positive about linking up with strangers. Thanks for the advice... It gets rough being a social intravert! Too bad I'm not a total badass like Johnny Q!

Well no shit Sherlock, that is about as obvious as the sand in your gina. I am glad we can agree on the fact that you are not looking for an experienced climbing partner. Instead, you must be looking for a nooby beginner who will tolerate you and pretend as if you are an asset of a climbing partner; perhaps even one that will look up to your nooby ass.

Honestly, I am pretty offended that you did not realize that I gave you some pretty sound advice for hooking up a belay that was passed on down to me from the previous generation. It is the oldest trick in the book and I almost hesitated to give it out to a noob. Then again, there is no accounting for individual taste. You seem confused about the word social introvert. Let me define it for you.

Social introvert: "the directing of interest inwards towards one's own thoughts and feelings rather than towards the external world or making social contacts."

It takes someone who is not a social introvert to do what I have advised: go out there and meet people at the actual crag. It takes a total social introvert to do what you are attempting: "hook up with another social introvert on the internet without ever actually watching them climb or meeting them face to face first".

I realize the revelation about your noobyness might seem offensive to you, but never pass up a gift. My gift was the oldest trick in the book to find a belay, sorry your ego is more important than a good belay.

By the way, it's introvert genius. If I correct your gammer or spelling you are way down on the totem pole, just ask huggy bear.

haha gammer, did you mean grammer, or maybe grammar?

Ellenor Stone wrote:...I'm not taking whippers...but I never do being a static climber and a predictable leader...

Just an FYI, neither of those characteristics have anything to do w/taking whippers or not.

Make sure your potential partner is what they claim they are i.e. skill level, ability and safety level. Years ago I hooked up through the telephone/internet with a local north-east climber, that I did not know very well, regarding a two week climbing trip to Joshua Tree in March of 2003.

After many spirited telephone conversations during the winter it was determined that this trip would be the right thing to do and that this person was well traveled and experienced and would be a good fit.

Well, after training all winter trying to get strong for the harder routes at J-tree and finally arriving and meeting my partner...it didn't take very long for me to realize that this person was not as advertised. It was expressed to me at that time, that this person had not climbed at all indoors/outdoors since the previous fall and had not done any training what so ever. Puzzlement, we had discussed and planned this trip for months prior and this person was apparently familiar with the stiff grades.

The first few days were filled with my leading everything this person had on their tick list, inability for this person to second 5.5 and 5.6, incredibly slow seconding, seemingly endless hours of belaying this person while hanging and dogging the cruxes of 5.5 and 5.6 and to add insult to injury, this person's endless complaining about my technical, safety and overall climbing abilities, including the questioning of my "antique and wornout" climbing equipment. The downclimbs I will never forget!

We would hike for what seemed like hours, passing by the wonderful groupings of multi-star routes that I had studied over the winter...only to climb some isolated obscure choss.

Well after these few initial days of frantically searching for a diplomatic resolution to this deteriorating situation and to salvage my precious climbing trip, it turned-out that simply a classic 5.7 J-tree crack climb was just the medicine to fix the situation. As a result, it was expressed, that the three days of continuous J-tree face and crack climbing was far too much for the untrained muscles and non-callused hands. Lactic acid had set in to such an extent that further climbing was not possible.

With this, I was given an apology and we parted ways. I was able to hook-up with others with similar interest levels and the rest of my climbing trip was a success.

I can only blame myself!

muttonface wrote: I was once exposed to radiation from gammer rays, now I spell like a champ!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CiWv_3tvHtc

Johny Q wrote: Well no shit Sherlock, that is about as obvious as the sand in your gina. I am glad we can agree on the fact that you are not looking for an experienced climbing partner. Instead, you must be looking for a nooby beginner who will tolerate you and pretend as if you are an asset of a climbing partner; perhaps even one that will look up to your nooby ass. As for me, I am positive about hooking up with strangers, especially cute female ones. Additionally, I began by stating that I do this every summer but your ego clouded your ability to read and think. Honestly, I am pretty offended that you did not realize that I gave you some pretty sound advice for hooking up a belay that was passed on down to me from the previous generation. It is the oldest trick in the book and I almost hesitated to give it out to a noob. Then again, there is no accounting for individual taste. You seem confused about the word social introvert. Let me define it for you. Social introvert: "the directing of interest inwards towards one's own thoughts and feelings rather than towards the external world or making social contacts." It takes someone who is not a social introvert to do what I have advised: go out there and meet people at the actual crag. It takes a total social introvert to do what you are attempting: "hook up with another social introvert on the internet without ever actually watching them climb or meeting them face to face first". I realize the revelation about your noobyness might seem offensive to you, but never pass up a gift. My gift was the oldest trick in the book to find a belay, sorry your ego is more important than a good belay. By the way, it's introvert genius. If I correct your gammer or spelling you are way down on the totem pole, just ask huggy bear.

OK? I think your idea is a great one. I have seen it employed at many a crag... your not letting out any big secrets. Your application of this tactic is what makes you an ass and someone I would rather not deal with socially. Read your post's man.... You should simmer down.

Randy W. wrote: OK? I think your idea is a great one. I have seen it employed at many a crag... your not letting out any big secrets. Your application of this tactic is what makes you an ass and someone I would rather not deal with socially. Read your post's man.... You should simmer down.

Sorry Mr. "out of the drunk tank" looking for a "safe belay" on the internet. I see now how my joking around about the "application of my methods" might have been offensive to you because of your lack of experience, humor, and probable hangover. I apologize, I thought you were a troll.

Do you honestly think an internet forum is a safe and rational place to find a belay partner? And if your personality is so dam rosy, why are you looking for a sketchy belay partner on the internet in the first place? Are you sure that I am the ass? I mean, I know I am an ass, but I have a plethora of climbing partners to choose from so........

Not to sound callous and ridiculous, which I am, but when nooby climbers die it sheds a negative light on all climbers. You should actually see someone belay before you go climbing with them. Accidents happen. Serious.

Oh, Johnny Q, you are missing out on the essential core of the climbing experience by passing up random partners. Without the internet, I wouldn't have had the fine experience of being sport belayed on a munter, or taking a 5.11 offwidth climber as he hung all over 5.9 offwidth. I've been laid, belayed, and paid by internet climbing partners. I didn't really get paid, but that part rhymed and sounded cool in the cash, gas, or ass vein of rhymeneering.

So, answer me this: how many FAs would Fred Beckey have without the random belay?

Randy's junk is bigger.

Welcome to 2012, the internet is the most convenient place in which to find a climbing partner. Safe or unsafe, experienced or unexperienced. It is what it is. Mountain Project is like a box of chocolates......

No offense but Ive found more competent people over the internet that I have had the pleasure of knowing and climbing with then I ever have at a crag or gym. I wouldnt want to climb with 90% of the folk at my local gym. I certainly wouldnt want to climb with you, "nooby".

PS....your big "secret" of catching a ride...First of all isnt a "secret" in the least bit. Your telling people how to lie to potential future partners and friends, and your making up a lame ass story. Most likely the same tactic you apply to most of your posts here, along with your profile.

That is all....

Old Custer wrote:Oh, Johnny Q, you are missing out on the essential core of the climbing experience by passing up random partners. Without the internet, I wouldn't have had the fine experience of being sport belayed on a munter, or taking a 5.11 offwidth climber as he hung all over 5.9 offwidth. I've been laid, belayed, and paid by internet climbing partners. I didn't really get paid, but that part rhymed and sounded cool in the cash, gas, or ass vein of rhymeneering. So, answer me this: how many FAs would Fred Beckey have without the random belay?

You obviously didn't read anything but the final post Custer, so try again. I am all for meeting people for random belays at the crag where I can assess their ability to belay, but not on an online forum where you apparently need to assess climbing ability according to sentence structure. Looks like my stance struck an introverted nerve, hey cms829?

Ellenor Stone wrote:Johny Q give it a chance! If u don't like the person just turn around and walk away. The odds are u will learn a lot about yourself have one of your friends watch him belay while u r climbing and hold the rope.

If one of my friends are there why the hell am I looking for a random to belay me???

Below is a post that I found on SuperTopo a few years ago. It shows the "dark side" of climbing with strangers.

Climbing Encounters of the Third Kind

In my attempts to go climbing as much as possible, I sometimes will go climbing with people who maybe I shouldn’t. When I moved here to Colorado, the first time I got out on some sport routes it was with a guy who obviously didn’t understand that when I said “take” it meant to take in the slack and that a fall was imminent. Take. TAKE. TAKE!!! TAKEINTHESLACKNOW!!!

Granted, climbing with guys like that wasn’t ALL that bad. Generally I had a good time, did some routes, got outside. I was out climbing on rock, wasn’t I? All that changed this weekend. Let me tell you about a guy I climbed with this weekend I will call Epic Mike.

Epic Mike posted a message on an online message board looking for a partner for the Flatirons on Saturday. It just so happened that my normal partner (a good climber and safe, not weird) wasn’t available to climb on Saturday and I was, so I responded to Epic Mike’s post saying that I’d be willing to go climbing with him. It seems he was visiting the Boulder area from California and he wanted to climb a long route at the Flatirons. I asked about his experience and he responded that he’d done lots of multi pitch rock and alpine climbs, and even climbed some peaks in Nepal. He and I decided to climb the Third Flatiron, a easy but long classic route that neither of us had done before.

The guy seemed normal enough when I picked him up, we chatted for a bit on the way to the parking lot and nothing struck me as out of the ordinary. We racked up with a very light rack and started to head up to the base of the climb. We’d decided to do a variation of the Standard East Face route that started at the very bottom of the Third Flatiron. This would give us 200-300 more feet of climbing than the Standard route proper, and an interesting 5.7 roof on the 2nd pitch.

As we were hiking up the fire road to the base, it became clear to me that either I was an Olympic athlete or Epic Mike was a bit out of shape - and the only medals I have are leftover chocolate ones from Halloween. I had to wait every 100 feet or so for him to catch up, and I was carrying the rack, the rope AND all the water. Along the way Epic Mike keeps asking me if I think this would be a good spot to take a picture, all the while clicking away like a tourist. He asked me what altitude we were at, and I told him it was probably 14000 feet less than Nepal. Remember, the place where you climbed some peaks? We bushwhacked our way to the start of the climb and reviewed the topo and route description.

Epic Mike was all gung ho to tackle the first pitch because he “loved overhangs”. I looked up at the climb, looked at the topo and the description and let him know that the overhangs that we could see from the base were almost certainly over 200 feet up the route, therefore they would land on the 2nd pitch. His routefinding skills seemed a bit out of whack, so I started up the route. It was easy climbing, and after a rope length I found a halfway decent place to build an anchor and bring Epic Mike up. The anchor was okay, so I opted to stay clipped into the anchor, take a stance and belay him from my harness. Two minutes after starting the climb, I could tell that he had fallen. About twenty minutes later, he arrives at the belay.

Me: “What happened, did you take a fall?”

Epic Mike: “Yeah, I thought that I would try to climb some of the overhangs to the left of the route.”

Me: “You mean the ones at the same height as my first piece of gear?”

Epic Mike: “Was that where your gear was? No wonder I took a big pendulum.”

Me: “…”

The seeds of doubt are starting to grow in my head. I hand the rack over to him and let him take the next pitch. The next pitch has a roof about 50 feet above, with three distinct cracks splitting the roof about 15 feet apart each. I told Epic Mike that he should probably take the left hand crack because it looked like it was the 5.7 variation - the others looked thin and NOT 5.7. He heads up for the RIGHT HAND CRACK. At this point I’m thinking that maybe he’s seeing something that I’m not, and the right hand crack is indeed on route. About 45 feet after leaving the belay, something happens to Epic Mike that I will never forget.

His Black Diamond Alpine Bod harness falls down around his ankles.

I’m standing at the belay, the rope running through my belay device, up the wall, tied to a harness that gravity and several pounds of climbing gear has liberated from it’s owner’s hips. I freeze. There is nothing else I can do. I’m safe, but Epic Mike is far from secure. He struggles to get his feet in good positions, gets a marginal piece of gear into a crack, clips it to a sling around his shoulders and begins the process of hiking up his harness back around his waist. I feel like I’m a voyeur in a dressing room watching someone try on a thong. Finally the harness is back up and tightened, and Epic Mike continues up to the crack in the roof.

But it’s the wrong crack. As I watch him struggle to find the moves over it, I yell at him to go left, it might be easier. Surprised thatthere was an alternate way, Epic Mike retreats and moves left, stickingin a piece of gear to protect the roof move. He struggles, gets a footon, then two, tries to pull over the edge, gropes for a hold…

And takes a 20 foot leader fall onto the slab below.

He’s ok, he’s shaken but not stirred. He builds a belay at the crack and brings me up. The only injury he’s sustained is to the LCD screen of his camera, which is now broken. I look at the moves over the very short overhang and determine that this IS the 5.7 route over. I get the gear, rack up, and position myself for the moves over the roof. The belay is tight, we are stepping over each other as I exit the belay. I start to pull up and ease over the edge of the overhang when I hear: “OWOWOWOWOW” from below. I painfully reverse the hand jam I have and back down to the belay.

It seems that through two shirts, my nut tool had hooked Epic Mike’s right nipple ring. As he inspects the damage, it became clear to me that either I was Brad Pitt, or Epic Mike was a bit out of shape - and neither of Cambodian kids that I have are named Maddox. We both regroup and I tackle the roof. A few very short moves later and I’m over it and heading for the next belay. Over the next few pitches, Epic Mike demonstrates that he has the route finding skills of lumpy oatmeal - even after I point out several prominent features that I recognize from the topo. Regardless, we get back onto the Standard East Face route, which has eye bolts at each belay. Seven (relatively) smooth pitches later and we are at the top.

Note: I have to add here that during the whole climb, Epic Mike demonstrated that he was incapable of reeling in more than one foot of slack per second while belaying me. At several points during the climb, both on lead and on toprope he asked me to “climb slower”. I told him maybe he should think about “belaying faster”. Several times I thought about untying, soloing up to the anchor and asking him to take faster, then climbing back down to the end of the rope and tying back in. I showed him how to trick triple my slings FOUR TIMES and he couldn’t repeat it.

At the summit, Epic Mike poses for the camera. I am requested to take over 25 photos of Epic Mike in various stages of triumphant success, along with some posed “action shots” of him belaying nobody - I had untied already since we were going to rappel. From the summit it is three rappels to the ground. After the photo shoot had ended, we threaded the rope, I flaked and tossed the ends down and rapped off. I arrive on a spacious ledge below and call off rappel. One minute later, I hear: “ROCK ROCK… did you see where they landed?”

Epic Mike had dropped a whole ‘biner of my nuts on top of me.

Luckily I’d tucked into the wall at the first call, and the gear missed me barely. How the nuts came unclipped from his harness was as mysterious to me as how his ENTIRE HARNESS FELL OFF OF HIM during the second pitch. I’m thinking at this point that he might have a little thundercloud following him around just waiting for the opportunity to lightening him to death. Epic Mike raps off and says once we are at the second rap: “Wow, that was weird.”

I’m wondering if this is normal for him. I’ve had enough excitement during this climb to last me another ten years, but this guy is acting like his Mr. Magoo style is nothing out of the ordinary, why, doesn’t everyone’s harness fall off at one point or another? What’s a little nipple ring snag here and there, and dropped gear - that happens on every rappel! I just want to get down. I want off of this crazy train NOW.

We get to the last rappel and Epic Mike is near the anchors. We thread the rope and he flakes and throws the ends down. Now he wants me to go first so I can take pictures of him rappelling. Whatever, I’ll go first. If it gets me down I’ll agree to do anything. I head down the rope, but halfway down a tangle appears. I shake it out, and discover…

A KNOT IS TIED INTO THE ROPE.

I have no idea how he flaked this rope to get it to tie an overhand knot, but he did. I have to - while I’m on rappel - tie a prussik above me to hold my weight and another on the brake side just to be safe. He calls down to make sure I’m ok, and I mumble something about a knot tied in the rope. I set about untangling the cluster he created for me the ONLY TIME he had to throw the rope. There was no wind. There were no obstacles to avoid. It was a straight throw down. This guy had better not play any Russian Roulette, because he’d lose with NO BULLETS in the gun.

I finally get down. It is 5pm. I am tired from being on the route all day and worried that something else will happen on the descent. At this point I’m expecting a small plane to crash into the mountainside at the exact moment we are descending the trail. Either that or get mauled by a mountain lion, struck by lightning and molested by John Mark Karr all at the same time. Epic Mike yells down to me to make sure and take his picture. I’ll take his picture alright. I intentionally frame every shot badly as he comes off the rock. I retrieve my rope and start down the trail.

I could have gone back to the car, back to the trail, back to the car, and re-climbed the route solo in the time it took us to descend the walk-off. I guess Epic Mike has bad knees, even though he “ran a few marathons a few years ago”. I’m wondering what he ever did in Nepal, because if his timing there was like this climb he’d be in serious trouble. Eight pitches of 5.2, one of 5.7 and it took us 10 hours to complete. By now it is getting really dark.

We finally get back to the car, I drive him back and we part ways with a handshake and “good climb”. I can’t wait to get back to my house and wash the unluckyness out of my hair. I’ve never met anyone before that has had such a string of bad luck - I’ve learned my lesson. Make sure you know someone a bit better than their internet profile before embarking on a 9 pitch climb with them.

Johny boy is a moron mostly so don't worry about him. He has made it clear he prefers to show up at a place and wait around not climbing. Pouting to people with partners to make a party of three sounds like a blast...but I'd rather just arrange a partner ahead of time on mountian project and spend less time waiting and pouting and more time climbing.

I've gone on two 20 day climbing trips to patagonia with partners arranged on Mountain Project. I never met them or climbed with them before heading out, and it worked out fine. We were able to do lots of great climbs. Once in a while someone without a partner would show up and wait for a few days before getting to tag along on something smaller near base camp. My partner and I got on each others nerves after so many days in a tent together, but that is to be expected and I'd climb with them again.

As far as local climbing goes, most of my partners started as strangers on Mountain Project. You can always ask them what climbs they have led to get a better feel for their actual lead abilities.

Johny Q wrote: You obviously didn't read anything but the final post Custer, so try again. I am all for meeting people for random belays at the crag where I can assess their ability to belay, but not on an online forum where you apparently need to assess climbing ability according to sentence structure. Looks like my stance struck an introverted nerve, hey cms829?

hahaha, not quite bud. Im far from a social introvert. But thanks for the compliment! There is a huge difference between hanging out at a cliff pretending that your waiting for someone whom never shows since theyre a friend you made up, versus actually going to the crag with the intention of talking to different people, introducing yourself and starting conversations, finding real interest in people, as they find in you, and striking up a good old fashioned friendship. You know...like people used to do. When I dont have a partner, I grab my solo gear and head to the gunks with the intention of meeting new people. However, who knows if its going to be a quiet day and i'll be left soloing. But thats my backup plan anyway so no bigs. Unlike the contrary, I dont need to make people feel sorry for me to give me a catch or allow me to be a third on a multipitch. Sorry buddy....Give it a try though. seriously. It works. You shouldnt even have to bribe them with PBR or cash.

Oh and also, take your profile for example. If we were to plan to go climbing...I sure as shit would not say oh lets go do a 4 pitch 5.11d trad route. MODERATION people. To ensure your safety while climbing with a new partner, lower you expectations initially. Learn each others strengths and weaknesses. Watch them, talk to them, and teach them. They will likely do the same for you. Every person on this earth, whether they climb 5.3 or 5.14, has something to offer someone else. Climbing related or not. Every interaction with another human being has potential to teach you something you werent aware of, or maybe just confirm something you already were.

See there johny boy? Its the same as that in first grade when you met your first real friends. You learned from them and they learned from you. Most likely pretty valuable things as well.

Bottom Line dude...If you think watching someone belay for 10-30 minutes or lead a single pitch route gives you insight and enough knowledge of this persons abilities or climbing techniques, I warn you to be awfully cautious. Because Ive had to aid people down a 3 pitch climb that they successfully completed without a hitch (no pun intended). You see....Just because you can talk to your partner, while blindfolded, eating a sandwich, and opening your nalgene, all while you tie in, doesnt mean you know how to build a proper and safe anchor. In some instances, sure it does, in others, no...it doesnt.
I would much rather be able to judge a person initially by the knowledge I have found in his past posts, his use of proper terms, and past successful trips, then watching someone belay a pitch.

In closing....be careful out there "nooby". Just because you've read "how to climb for dummies" and put high grades on your online profile, doesnt mean anything to those in the know. Good luck and good safe climbing!

oh and PS...if you still think im a social introvert, or that you "struck a nerve" of one, I suggest you go back to your dictionary. Im on this website to learn from others, and offer the knowledge that I myself possess as a climber of around 15 years. No, I probably dont have a bigger **** then you, but I assure you mine is always safe while climbing ;) I did not mean anything personally dude...its all in good fun. I hope you have a good day, seriously.

I don't know how many times i've read the epic mike story, but it gets funnier every time.

PM me if anybody wants to go climbing around Boulder!