Anyone done homemade ice tools?
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I am at a university where I have a friend running the composites lab. Basically that means access to carbon fiber, fiber glass, and kevlar tow, vacuum pumps, resin, ovens. I was wondering if anyone has experience making their own ice tools, specifically composite tools. |
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I'm not for certain but If you make a flat sheet of CF for a shaft I feel your in for a big problem. It will be to flimsy and chances are a side load will flex and shatter the shaft. A tubular design like BD cobras is tubular for a reason. You may be able to create some sort of triangular shaft (Hollow is important). Maybe some sort of I-beam shaped shaft with reinforcement risers stabilizing the flanges of the shaft. I would definitely contact an engineer before making flat sheet shafts of carbon fiber. |
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I've been considering doing something similar using the general X- Monster design. I plan on using high-alloy steel sheet for the shaft. I feel that the X-Monster can be improved with a distal taper near the handle and a grip that actually fits my hands. Beyond that, I think the experimenting with swing and pick geometry would be enlightening. |
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Dobson wrote:I've been considering doing something similar using the general X- Monster design. I plan on using high-alloy steel sheet for the shaft. I feel that the X-Monster can be improved with a distal taper near the handle and a grip that actually fits my hands. Beyond that, I think the experimenting with swing and pick geometry would be enlightening. I think that steel is a much better choice than cf sheet. Woven CF laminates get all of their strength from continuous fibers. Shaping the handle from sheet will cut into those fibers. Maybe you can use a non-woven composite like CF-reinforced PEEK, but it would be extremely costly (several thousand per tool). The other alternative is to do a lay up on a lightweight frame like Grivel does with their Quantum Monster.You mean like some kind of core for the shape and then wrap the carbon around that instead of cutting it from a sheet? I looked at the UIAA ice axe ratings and it all seems like the loads are pretty light. For example, the X-Monster, to replace that spring steel with carbon fiber, using an isotropic strength and ballpark properties, you end up with a ridiculously thin shaft. Using 1/8" piece of CF (the same thickness as the regular steel shaft) would come out to something like 1/5 the weight and 3x the strength. |
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Yes I do mean wrapping layers around a core. Carbon panels are far from omni-directional. A strength table found on Performance Composites shows an 81% reduction in ultimate tensile strength when the panel is loaded 45-degrees from the primary axis. Loading across the fiber planes is even worse. CF is also prone to grain tear out and chipping, a big issue when drilling and cutting, (especially with a waterjet). Steel is no match for CF in terms of ultimate strength to weight ratio, but it does have advantages, especially for us amateurs. It is easy to work with, (mostly) omni-directional, and easy to engineer. A high alloy steel with good heat treat will be stronger per-dimension than a composite, (though considerably heavier). |
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There's a guy who climbs around NY (Catskills and Adirondacks) who has homemade tools. CF shafts with hand carved hickory handles. He shaped the picks himself as well out of raw steel plate. The tools are a near-replica of Nomics. They are absolute works of art. I asked him if he would consider making a pair to sell but he declined. He's a materials engineer by trade and has access to a full fabrication shop. I don't remember his name but he's originally from the Eastern Bloc - perhaps Ukraine or Lithuania and lives in NYC? |
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Check this out rockclimbing.com/cgi-bin/fo…;post=2264646;page=1;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;mh=25; |
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made this about 10 years ago before I was blessed with fabrication skills. Got me up mt. whitney's mountaineers route. homemade piolet |
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Jon H wrote:There's a guy who climbs around NY (Catskills and Adirondacks) who has homemade tools. CF shafts with hand carved hickory handles. He shaped the picks himself as well out of raw steel plate. The tools are a near-replica of Nomics. They are absolute works of art. I asked him if he would consider making a pair to sell but he declined. He's a materials engineer by trade and has access to a full fabrication shop. I don't remember his name but he's originally from the Eastern Bloc - perhaps Ukraine or Lithuania and lives in NYC? I seem to recall that there was a discussion of him and his tools on NEice about 2 years ago... it might be worth doing a bit of digging. He seemed pretty happy to talk about his design choices, methodology, etc.That would be Rolando. I posted the photo of his hickory/walnut-shafted Nomic clones on NEice. Don't know if it's still up on the site. I also made ergo-style handles on my old BD X-15s. It's pretty easy to do with plywood/fiberglass layers, wrapped overall with more FG. Mine were crazy strong, but I didn't get the geometry right and the picks tended to pop out of the ice. Sold 'em to Brent E. Photo of my work: rockclimbing.com/photos/Mis… |
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Did a shafts for a form design project in school (the head is a rough form of the fusion heads). Not sure that fiberglass would be the best, that's what I did mine in and turned out about 300 grams heavier than I would have liked. But that being said I don't know anything about fiberglass other than how to work with the process we used. I would have an reservations swinging this guy (since it's almost solid :P) but getting the junction between the head and the shaft seems like it would be the crux of the construction |
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C Blank wrote: but getting the junction between the head and the shaft seems like it would be the crux of the constructionYeah after a bit of research and design work I've come to realize that too. Carbon fiber and bolts don't seem to mix well. The only solution I can think of is to machine an aluminum head to bolt a pick onto and then bond that to carbon fibre. This seems to be what Grivel and BD do. The other question is how to shape the handle and what materials. I also learned that carbon fiber and aluminum can cause galvanic corrosion, so you need to separate the two with a layer of fiber glass. |
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Wow, Rolando's tools are beautiful and probably warmer and more comfortable to grip than anything mass produced. |
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See this thread for tools made from denim. Yes, denim. |
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milfred wrote:! ! a woodworker and metals too. Very nice budget tools, imagine the hours spent were labor intensive though. |