Being a climber means not being an adult?
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So I was having this discussion with my head setter last night after work. We were talking about why some climbers think that they have to be homeless, dirt-bag, live out of a truck, get high and eat beanie weenies type to be considered a climber, and to climb hard as well. |
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Most of the guys I know who climb 5.13/bolt routes are working full time jobs and have families. In fact i'm the only one I can think of who lives more along the 'dirtbagger lifestyle', and I'm probably the worst climber/bolter of the bunch! I think it's an outdated idea that you have to dirtbag to be a 'climber' or to climb hard... |
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"work 40hrs a week and climb 5.13/put up new routes/climb big peaks/go on big missions and still have a family and a job and a dog." |
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Each their own. If your doing what is best for you why do you care? |
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Sam Stephens wrote:We were talking about why some climbers think that they have to be homeless, dirt-bag, live out of a truck, get high and eat beanie weenies type to be considered a climber, and to climb hard as well.Nice stereotype! Sam wrote:So why do so many climbers feel like they can't fit into society and still climb hard?Why do you care? Climbing is what it is to you. It means something else to other people. Do you feel something lacking in your current approach? Had you ever considered that maybe dirtbagging has appealing components that might not be related to "climbing hard"? |
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Timmamok wrote:Each their own. If your doing what is best for you why do you care?Because the continuous reinforcement of dirtbag-as-the-ideal is ingraining the notion that climbers are not answerable to anyone, not a boss, not a spouse, nothing, which in turn leads to deeply destructive practices by a group of climbers who honestly believe that they can live their life without in any way impacting others. |
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Nick Stayner wrote: maybe dirtbagging has appealing components that might not be related to "climbing hard"Amen. Climbing hard is cool. I also like climbing all the freaking time. |
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Brian Scoggins wrote: Because the continuous reinforcement of dirtbag-as-the-ideal is ingraining the notion that climbers are not answerable to anyone, not a boss, not a spouse, nothing, which in turn leads to deeply destructive practices by a group of climbers who honestly believe that they can live their life without in any way impacting others.You make it sound like an epedemic or some kind of conspiracy. Sure, dirtbags can be annoying, and the larger percentage of posing faux baggers are even more so. So what? I wouldn't call it "deeply destructive" any more than living any other lifestyle. People who think they have the inherent right to dictate what others' values should be scare me a lot more than some aimless vagabonds. |
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Don't get me wrong, I'm not bashing anyone. Just creating a dialogue. I didn't mean to come off as condescending or stereotypical. |
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Brian Scoggins wrote: Because the continuous reinforcement of dirtbag-as-the-ideal is ingraining the notion that climbers are not answerable to anyone, not a boss, not a spouse, nothing, which in turn leads to deeply destructive practices by a group of climbers who honestly believe that they can live their life without in any way impacting others.Wow, Brian. Don't you think this might be a little bit extreme? Care to provide some examples of "destructive practices"? And no, you can't use Alf as your example :). Who's more destructive in the bigger picture? The dirtbag who is entrenched, with or without a vehicle, for 2 months in Yosemite Valley or the Boulder/SLC types (sorry, couldn't help myself) who point their fancy sportmobiles to the Creek/Tensleep/Lander etc... every weekend? Who is this "group" you refer to with such disdain? And who's doing the reinforcing? |
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Nick Stayner wrote: Wow, Brian. Don't you think this might be a little bit extreme? Care to provide some examples of "destructive practices"? And no, you can't use Alf as your example :). Who's more destructive in the bigger picture? The dirtbag who is entrenched, with or without a vehicle, for 2 months in Yosemite Valley or the Boulder/SLC types (sorry, couldn't help myself) who point their fancy sportmobiles to the Creek/Tensleep/Lander etc... every weekend? Who is this "group" you refer to with such disdain? And who's doing the reinforcing?Indian Creek. We are losing that resource because every dumbass with dredlocks and a subaru thinks its his god-given right to shit all over somebody else's property despite repeated, loud reminders that their actions have consequences. Ten Sleep. If we still have that free camping along the old highway in 10 years, it will be because Alli Raney has switched from leaving nasty notes on peoples' cars to hitting non-team players with a 2x4. Red Rocks. You think the camp nazi started out so mean? I'd get irritated too when I'm tasked with enforcing rules that nobody in that campground seems the least inclined to follow, from trying to poach campsites to partying after quiet hours. Roadside Crag, Red River Gorge. Closed, because we couldn't follow the rules of the area. See the trend? I strongly doubt that Alf is the problem, its the thousands of climbers who have the means to pay for things but see what he's doing as the ideal, so they don't, to stick it to the man. And companies from 5.10 to Patagonia reinforce it. "Dirtbag Diaries" "Quit your job" "Climb now, work later". We've taken a group of social misfits, unable to keep a steady job, and made them into saints. Their example is unsustainable for more than a few hundred in the country, and even those few hundred MUST have be independently wealthy if they want to live that life in a way that doesn't specifically harm access by failing to pay for access fees, camping, etc, or stealing food off of other people's plates. This libertarian, iconoclast, outsider climber as a workable, responsible way to live died with disco. We are a major user group now, with politics and culture as diverse as the rest of the country (although almost uniformly upper-middle class), so the expectation on the part of land managers that we will all act with the same respect and maturity as the few dozen who showed up every winter back in the 60s is a spectacular way to accelerate the destruction of irreplaceable resources. If you're above college age, have a steady job, but still "dirtbag" while on climbing trips, you are the problem. |
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Old Custer wrote: ... the larger percentage of posing faux baggers are even more so.These kinds of guys make me laugh. I met a couple of them in Maple last year. They drive around the country in the Subaru their mom bought for them, camp on the side of road, have dreads, smoke weed, and think they are dirt bagging it. I even bought it for a little bit, until they invited us to stay on their yacht in California sometime or to come visit them at their 2nd house in Park City and then decided spur of the moment that they were going to spend a month in India starting 2 weeks from then. Weird dudes. |
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Great post Brian! |
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Brian, I'm going to go out on a limb and say you don't completely understand what you're talking about. You may think you know what you're seeing, but unless you're out there interacting with people, you don't really know shit. You need to remember that this thread was started in regards to full-time climbers. Right? |
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muttonface wrote:Aside from that, if some rich kid that can afford to live outside wants to lie to himself and others to satisfy some kind of trendy acceptance/image compulsion, he or she is really only hurting themselves.If only it was just some rich kid who was otherwise following all the rules, then they'd only be hurting themselves. Unfortunately, its some rich kid who wants to be part of this mythical (as in fictional) climber tradition of sticking it to the man, and you can bet your ass that it only takes a few dozen of those (compared to hundreds of law abiding climbers) to really wreck a resource. For a small scale example, look at the damage 20 people cutting a switchback can do, despite the hundreds that don't. Apparently, the only value we as climbers can agree on is the veneration of the very behaviors that will cost us access to the locations where we practice our hobby. |
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Regarding Patagonia: I find a lot of their efforts, especially regarding conservation in the region for which they are named, to be a lot more about advertising and a lot less about doing what's best for the area. But that's a whole other kettle of fish. |
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Brian Scoggins wrote:I have an awful lot of respect for the folks who make an area their home and love it and take care of it like their home. I have no respect for the bastards who see that the real dirtbags climb everyday, apparently squatting, and figure that the real core of the lifestyle is taking what you want, when you want, because the world owes it to you.I agree with you in this completely. That seems like a no-brainer. Everyone has a problem with them (except for themselves, as a group). I just hate that you're equating all "dirtbags" into this realm. And I still think you're grossly inaccurate when gauging where the biggest impacts are coming from. Does one faux-hippie, poop-on-the-crypto-soil idiot=100 selfish CO weekend warriors in terms of impact? Because I'd say that's a fair ratio. |
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Being an 'adult'? Grab your lady and load up your vw and go climbing. Your dog would be stoked. |
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I blame the Occupy movement. BOOM, I just threw politics into the mix. |