Nomics Or Fusions?

I am considering saving up for a pair of leashless ice tools. I have an older pair of cobras that work fine, but have no support and are a little too strait to use leashless. The two tools I am trying to decide between are: the BD fusions and the Petzl Nomics. I am looking to do primarily waterfall ice and mixed climbing. Also, I know the best thing to do is go somewhere to demo them, but living in Iowa, that's pretty much out of the question.

Thanks,
Brooks

I'd go with the Cassin All-Mountains if you plan on doing much mixed. I know a few folks who use these including myself and we all love them. They are not super technical like the tools you've mentioned above but their advantage is that they work just as well on vertical as they do on less than, and they cost a lot less.

Well I've owned the Fusions and now own the Nomics. Unless you are climbing M10 or harder, no need for Ergo. The Fusions don't swing very well. Go for the Nomics, they swing better than Fusions and climb rock just as well.

Bud Martin wrote:Well I've owned the Fusions and now own the Nomics. Unless you are climbing M10 or harder, no need for Ergo. The Fusions don't swing very well. Go for the Nomics, they swing better than Fusions and climb rock just as well.

if you swing BD tools then the fusions might be a good fit ( I for one didnt like them when I demoed a pair two seasons back)They are deff NOT a Nomic killer in any way, shape or form !

But Them Nomics are sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeT ! if Petzl would only get a clue
and mold the upper grip out of rubber insted of that Stupid f***ing
tape and add a spike they would be my wettest dream .

the Cassins look interesting and Im going to pick up a pair just to
see if im missing something good. hope they are a good replacement for
my new style Quarks wich I sold ,I like my old style quarks better.

Don't know if this helps ya
Cheers
ICE

I swung a Nomic in one hand and a Fusion in the other at last year's Ouray Ice Fest and the Nomic was head and shoulders above its Black Diamond counterpart...

That being said, I also really liked the Cassin tools previously mentioned. Side by side they also beat the Fusion (both of these comparisons are referring to steep ice climbing ability). I haven't been able to try the Nomics and the Cassins at the same time yet so no advice there. Personally, I'd save some money for gas (especially driving from Iowa!) and go with the Cassins.

I agree with Bud and climbamt: the fusions simply don't swing well. There's too much weight in the head and it's centered too far back from the tip of the pick causing lots of useless swings that glance off or are otherwise wobbly. At this year's fest, I opted to use my schools old rental viper tools over the fusions...

Good luck in your quest for Excalibur!

I used to have BD Cobras and upgraded to Nomics this year. Love those tools. Work great for just about everything, although I do like the Ergos for mixed stuff....even if it isn't all that hard......

Cassin X-All Mountain rocks!!! Been on them for 2.5 weeks now and climbed over 1200' of ice with them...they are by far the best tool out there for me...perfect balance for a natural swing, not too light and not too heavy...sticks like you won't believe with very little displacement of ice (take off 1" or so of the picks rough grey finish to keep them from being too difficult to remove from ice)...excellent for mixed up to M5 or so...certain tools throughout the years make you go "heck yeah" the first time you swing them..this is one of them...excellent clearance on steep, bulgy WI5 ice..has spike on bottom to facilitate plunging in snow or standing up over bulges...get the double pommel grip to facilitate matching...price is a modest $219 each..replacement picks are $35 each..I can buy any tool via pro-deal and this is the one that I chose

I have used both tools and like them both. There are only slight differences in the two. I own the Fusions and couldn't be happier. Check out This Review

Also keep in mind that in order for the Fusion to climb ice remotely well it is important to put the Laser picks on them. I remember Will Gadd saying that he thought it was ridiculous that they shipped with the Fusion picks instead of the Lasers.

Nomics, they swing far more naturally on the ice than the Fusions.

"There are only slight differences in the two"

Ha, Ha, ha.....now that is really funny.
Get the Nomics or Ergos. Either are good.
Fusions climb ice well enough with Laser picks but no where close to how easy a Nomic or Ergo will with a Cascade or Ice pick.

Nomics or X-Dream hands down!

cassin x-dream!

+ 5, 6, 7... or whatever it is up to for the Nomics.

looks like 7+1

8+1 for the nomics, I love mine. I like the grip of the fusions but Bd picks lick balls

Add one more for nomics.

another +1 for Nomics.

When I first saw someone with Fusions, I thought that Petzl-Charlet changed to a new color. The copy-cat is blatant and BD also blatantly copied the Quark years ago.

I think a big swing difference between most BD tools and others is BD are angled to swing more forward-back like a battle-axe instead of a hooking tool. I think that makes the BD adapt more easily to new climbers as the hooking-swing is less natural, but the hooking-swing is much, much more energy efficient. Place the pick and tail of two tools against a flat table to compare pick angles. To augment the forward-back swing, BD has always used heavy heads on their tools, but unless you're mr. big big burly man, I always recommend going for a relatively light tool for swinging it over your head all day long.

A big component that was missed in early clearance tool designs is the amount of weight behind the hand... the more rearward weight the harder it is to place accurately when you are pumped... a little off-angle leads to a way crooked bounced miss... a little like an old rear-wheel drive sedan fishtailing on slick roads. The Nomics were the first design I saw that addressed that... putting less weight behind the line of drive than even old straighter tools like Pulsars.

Anther thing is Petzl stuff is well-engineered and manufactured to take a beating... versus BD which my partners & I have easily broken. Ice tools are used for pounding!

Petzl is introducing a newer hammer for their tools today at the Outdoor Retailer show, which is lower profile than their current hammer, so look for that, but either old or new hammers are sweet when it's time to place pins, Spectre hooks and pound tools into a belay. Way cheaper to buy Petzl's than the early DIY solution ( tinyurl.com/6u4pgel).

If you end up with older Nomics like mine without a shaft spike, just place the tool head-down when you are using the tools like walking canes. Or Petzl can hook you up with replacement U21 GR2 grip rest.

In case this booster rah-rah sounds I'm on the payroll, no I've never worked for Petzl/Charlet but their stuff has kept my hide in good shape!

'nough said! Have fun Brooks!

I'm surprised nobody has posted this sooner:
cascadeclimbers.com/blog/20…

First off, as an owner of the greeny Fusions, you should probably get the Nomics.

However, there have been some rather silly things said on this thread, worth clarifying and clearing BD's name a bit. Also worth bearing in mind that the BD tools were designed for mixed first, ice second, alpine dead last. They have a slight edge over the nomics when dry tooling, and are just a bit cheaper as well. However, on ice, there is no question that the nomics are all around superior.

Swing: Anyone who thinks there is a generalizable BD swing has clearly never swung a variety of BD tools. There is no comparison between the way the fusions and other BD tools swing. The nomics definitely swing better, but the fusions are pretty decent when you learn how to work it a little better.

Durability: Everything on the fusion is absolutely bomber. That includes the pics. Whatever issues BD had with their picks breaking in the past appears to be over now. However, the jury is still out as to whether or not the "fixed" nomic pommel is truly bombproof. I personally will wait and see.