Wild Country Helium vs. Petzl Ange (because Camp Nano 23 sucks)

After getting a sweet deal on a bunch of Camp Nano 23 biners for racking and trad draws, I am severely disappointed. It's not that I find them hard to clip like many complain about. I think they are very easy to clip. The quality, however, is garbage.

• The have sharp pins [ends of the wiregate] incorrectly seated, so they tear nylon slings,
• The gate action is very stiff on some, easy on others.
• They are 7kn open gate, and the shroud protecting the gate from rubbing on rocks found on the original Nano was removed to save weight.
• The quality control is consistent with other cheap, low end Chinese made toys.

I switched to [color coded] DMM Phantoms for racking, and could not be any happier.

I own 1 Helium, and think it is great. Light, strong, but... expensive.

Never used a Petzl Ange (never even seen anyone using them... weird?)

I can get the Helium, Ange L, or Ange S all for about the same price.

Anyone have experience using both, want to offer some input?

I just bought a few Ange L and S and so far i love them. I have only had them for about a month and used them primarily for racking draws when ice climbing. The L's handle pretty well with gloves on. I believe the helium's are a little bit lighter the the petzl ange L but only by a few grams. Ange's are a dollar or so cheaper. I have some Ange S as well, but I prefer the full size L to the S.

I don't think you can go wrong with either.

I'd wait for the DMM Alpha Light, looks pretty sweet. The Alpha trad is available for $10 right now, better biner, better price.

If not DMM Shield and Specter 2 are also good and the Mammut Moses is a very light Italian made biner that is on sale at quite a few retailers...

Agreed on the Chino Camp nanos, got rid of them myself.

Dave77 wrote:I just bought a few Ange L and S and so far i love them...

Thanks for the quick reply Dave!
Not worried about weight differences. To me, they are all basically the same weight.

Right now, my buying options on the Ange are limited to either all Ange S or the 17cm quickdraws with S on top, L on bottom. I would break most of them down and make draws with 60cm slings - S on gear end, L on rope end.
Do you see any advantage or disadvantage of the Ange L vs Helium?
Is the Ange less likely to get clogged with dirt/ice/mud because of the straight through hole on the backside where the gate closes?

I have always loved Petzl's carabiners - only the highest quality in my experience; otherwise I would already have a bunch of Heliums.

coldfinger wrote:I'd wait for the DMM Alpha Light, looks pretty sweet. The Alpha trad is available for $10 right now, better biner, better price. If not DMM Shield and Specter 2 are also good and the Mammut Moses is a very light Italian made biner that is on sale at quite a few retailers... Agreed on the Chino Camp nanos, got rid of them myself.

• Looked at the DMM Shield - not interested.
• Spectre 2 is great, but Helium seems better to me? ~Little cheaper, but Helium is stronger & notchless.
• I looked at the Alpha trad.... Dunno what to think of it? The Light version looks good though - any idea when those will be available?

One of my partners (~40lb lighter than me) took a fall this year on the second bolt and broke a Moses in half. It had to have been an open gate failure, the biner was not stretched or anything. But since then, I have tried to look for the strongest open gate ratings I can find with reasonable weight penalty.

The plastic piece on the backside of the monofil gate seems like it is doing a great job keeping the ice/dirt/ crud out. I have taken them up a couple alpine ice climbs with involved some bushwacking. The gate still functions very smoothly. However only time will tell if it will still function as smoothly.

Again I do not see a major difference that will sway you either way. Breaking down the draws and utilizing the S on the gear end will save you a little bit of weight for sure.

A majority of my rack consists of BD and some mad rock carabiners, however I am becoming a petzl fan. I love the Attache, Williams, and now the Ange.

Yikes! Don't like broken biners.

I got my hands on an Alpha solid gate and was impressed.

No idea on when the Alpha light will be here but I'd call Lisa & Steve at Excalibur in SLC, they'll know and should be able to ship direct.

I too am curious about the Ange, I like Petzl gear, but I bought a few BD Oz biners and was wondering what others thought of those, I'm probably confining them to my trad rack.

I have a few of each (small Ange) and really like them both but they have their downsides -
The Ange feels less than awesome unclipping because it's a mono wire, it really feels like you're pinching (the plastic thing def helps but still feels odd after several months), and I suppose the simplicity benefit of a wiregate is lost since it has a hinge spring.
The Helium is generally great but I have small hands and sometimes find the basket too deep and clipping is hard (minor). Regarding dirt/ice clogging the notch I have not had any problems on ice and snow.

I've also been trying out BD Hoodwires and generally like them for their size and shape (big enough to use gloved but a little smaller than the Helium) but they are a little chunkier than even the Ange L.

I have some of the original Nanos that were still made in Italy and they were garbage then. That being said I really like both the Helium, although my only experience there is with a Helium draw I booted from a 5.5 in AZ and the Ange. I really like the Ange S and L but have many more of the Small ones and like them a lot for racking. They are pretty good for the Gear? bolt end of Draws as well. I personally think that a notch-less/ shielded nose is a very important for keeping the gate closed and you off the deck. I dont think you can really go wrong with Petzl Wild Country or DMM. However, I have some of the Cypher Mydas and really like them, except the nose is not hooded. I personally would get Anges or Astros, however if your have tech or Helium friends on your rack you may want to consider a rack pack of color coded heliums... they are pricey but nice.

I built some draws with the L's and am using the the helium's on the end of my helium's.

So far i love them all...

Rob Warden wrote:I personally think that a notch-less/ shielded nose is a very important for keeping the gate closed and you off the deck. I dont think you can really go wrong with Petzl Wild Country or DMM.

AMEN!

I haven't used the Ange but I use the Heliums and they obviously work well. I prefer the shape of the Helium/Nitro over the shape of the DMM

i use nitros, neutrinos, nanos, heliums, fs mini, shields and old solid gate biners

i have never found a huge difference between notched, notchless and lightly notched biners ... the nano and fs mini i do have issues with the size with gloves on and for clove hitches ...

quite a few "top climbers" still use notched biners ... its the climber that makes the difference, generally not so much the gear ...

that said my favorite are the nitros, full sized, hooded, lightly notched, light and CHEAP

I use Heliums exclusively on my ice rack and one of my regular partners recently invested in a batch of Ange Ss for his ice rack. Have used the Heliums for years and the Ange S for part of about half a season (1/2 season for me is around 20+ days) now. My impressions... I expected to really HATE the Ange S. I actually *still* want to hate the Ange S, but I can't honestly say that I've had any trouble handling/clipping them with gloves on. Every time I'm really gripped and we're using my partner's rack, I swear and expect to fumble with the Ange, but, miracle of miracles, they come off my harness, onto the screw ,and into the rope without a hitch. We did have *serious* issues with them icing shut on a VERY wet climb up in Canada, something that I don't recall ever happening with my Heliums, but it hasn't happened since. The S is about 4 grams lighter than a Helium. For my money, that's not sufficient for me to change and I prefer the larger size/gate opening on the Helium. But it's a preference; I don't really have anything objective and negative to say about the Ange S.

Regarding the Ange's: I'm frankly a little worried about what would happen if you cross loaded a rope across that gate. It seems pretty thin to me. I posted a question to the Petzl site about whether the MonoFil gate could/would slice a rope. My question was forwarded to the technical dept, but they have yet to answer it. Details at: petzl.com/en/outdoor/news/p…

I also started a post here at MP, but it didn't seem to raise much attention: mountainproject.com/v/is-th… .

markmythoughts wrote:Regarding the Ange's: I'm frankly a little worried about what would happen if you cross loaded a rope across that gate. It seems pretty thin to me. I posted a question to the Petzl site about whether the MonoFil gate could/would slice a rope. My question was forwarded to the technical dept, but they have yet to answer it. Details at: petzl.com/en/outdoor/news/p… I also started a post here at MP, but it didn't seem to raise much attention: mountainproject.com/v/is-th… .

As they are hooded, the Ainge (and Shadow and Helium) are far more likely to rotate into the correct alignment. Good question tho......

i've become a fan of the Camp Photons for light full size biners. I have small hands and still hate freaking Nanos and metolius mini's

i do like neutrinos for racking though. and surprisingly the Mad Rock wiregates are also good for that. they suck for clipping the rope but for racking they are cheap and light

So I had a friend pick up a couple Petzl Ange S biners for me, and I have been comparing all of them. Phantoms, Helium, Neutrino, Moses, Ange S, Nano 23, Fs Mini, etc.
Will be writing a full comparison soon.

I will say, however, the Ange S is great. Quality is top notch, and it handles every bit as well as a full size Helium.

• The Dmm Alpha Light is not shipping for a few more months. I am holding my breath!
• The Wild Country Nitro has really piqued my interest, but have not been able to acquire any yet. Looks 90% as nice as a Helium for about half the price...
• I would be interested in the Wild Country Astro if its open gate strength(7kn) was on par with the rest of their line up.

I bought a petzl ange S 17cm draw. i do not like this particular carabiner because of its small opening (my fingers get stuck half the time i try to clip with it) and size (with gloves on? no way) i know the L is bigger, but it still has the single wire design which i find to be its biggest flaw. While clipping desperately on hard trad/sport lines i found that your thumb tends to roll off of the single wire because it is a cylinder, unlike a standard wire which has 2 wires to press against, giving you easier use with your thumb. i would not recommend the ange at all...however i have used the heliums and freakin' love em, light, easy to handle, and high quality...go heliums for sure

mugsy wrote:After getting a sweet deal on a bunch of Camp Nano 23 biners for racking and trad draws, I am severely disappointed. It's not that I find them hard to clip like many complain about. I think they are very easy to clip. The quality, however, is garbage. * The have sharp pins [ends of the wiregate] incorrectly seated, so they tear nylon slings, * The gate action is very stiff on some, easy on others. * They are 7kn open gate, and the shroud protecting the gate from rubbing on rocks found on the original Nano was removed to save weight. * The quality control is consistent with other cheap, low end Chinese made toys. I switched to [color coded] DMM Phantoms for racking, and could not be any happier. I own 1 Helium, and think it is great. Light, strong, but... expensive. Never used a Petzl Ange (never even seen anyone using them... weird?) I can get the Helium, Ange L, or Ange S all for about the same price. Anyone have experience using both, want to offer some input?

My experience mirrors yours regarding the Nano and the Phantom. I'm curious, however, why you are looking for something else. Are you not satisfied with the Phantoms for Alpine Draws as well?